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NVR: Sex and the sexes

We'd been talking about the societal evolution of genders, orgasm, etc. How did certain parts of our anatomy become slang for put-downs? Why are men and women trained to think about their own parts differently?

Go forth and debate!

Hahahah. Man, the glass is half empty on this one, isn't it, ShaolinBunny?

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I am 100% not up to par with this discussion, as I haven't looked at the Diva thread for a while.  I might have this all wrong, but during an orgasm aren't chemicals released that facilitate bonding amongst the partners?  So from a biological standpoint, isn't it advantagous to orgasm so monogamous relationships are formed? (because monogomy is better: parental care, blah blah)

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I am 100% not up to par with this discussion, as I haven't looked at the Diva thread for a while.  I might have this all wrong, but during an orgasm aren't chemicals released that facilitate bonding amongst the partners?  So from a biological standpoint, isn't it advantagous to orgasm so monogamous relationships are formed? (because monogomy is better: parental care, blah blah)

well, if that is the case, it would be in the women's interest for the MALE to orgasim. after all, the evolutionary biology/psch arguement is that women are finicky and have to try to keep their "nonmonogamous" man because "we ladies" are "programed" for monogamy (we need someone to care for us and the babies!). i guess i don't see the strong case for the ladies having orgasims.... unless it makes the man feel "more manly" and, thus, strokes his ego and encourages him to stay

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I was thinking more along the lines of finicky females desparately trying to find a good strong/whatever man to preserve the species.  And if the man bonds the girl to him, it's in his best interest.  But I can see how it wouldn't work that way, as ultimately the female is the one giving birth.

I dunno, all this speculation popped into my head when I learned about Neanderthals a while ago.  Scientists speculate that one facotr of their down fall was they could have been bred out of existence.  (The neanderthal women would mate with the more appealing homo sapian man, the offspring would be infertile due to separate species, and POOF! no more neanderthals).  Maybe the homo sapian men kept the neanderthal girls comming back for more because they were good lovers? 8)

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I was thinking more along the lines of finicky females desparately trying to find a good strong/whatever man to preserve the species.  And if the man bonds the girl to him, it's in his best interest.  But I can see how it wouldn't work that way, as ultimately the female is the one giving birth.

I dunno, all this speculation popped into my head when I learned about Neanderthals a while ago.  Scientists speculate that one facotr of their down fall was they could have been bred out of existence.  (The neanderthal women would mate with the more appealing homo sapian man, the offspring would be infertile due to separate species, and POOF! no more neanderthals).  Maybe the homo sapian men kept the neanderthal girls comming back for more because they were good lovers? 8)

I always suspected my sexiness was so dangerously powerful it could destroy whole species...  ::)

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Maybe I've missed something here, but isn't orgasm the superficial motivation for sex? Of course *biologically* speaking it's for procreation -- but aren't the females most likely to oragasm the ones that find sex most pleasurable?

Orgasm has many purposes (facilitating fertilization?) but I always saw it as the chocolate center  :)
Without orgasm the only motive might be love or curiosity--wouldn't this make it very difficult to sack a potential partner?

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I dont think the female orgasm is necessary in terms of procreation

I mean, really if youre breaking down mating into its barest natural form....its really a females procreating desire to mate with the biggest strongest male to then hopefully have the biggest strongest babies that will survive.

Now there are so many other factors here it could take a year to factor about 10% of them in probably.

I immediatly think of chimps and how they socialize and mate, and then you have the offshoot pygy chimps (bonobos) who are matriarchal (sp) and who also use sex and sexual acts for bonding with each other (homosexual and heterosexual)

also I would agree with female orgasm being a benefit to procreation, since if Im correct biologically, a female orgams includes a spasm of the cervix which would help sperm enter into the uterus....does that sound right ladies?

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Well, if we're going to be strict about what's "necessary" for procreation then male orgasms aren't necessary either.  Cowper's fluid (aka pre-cum) can impregnate.  Ejaculation just increases the odds.  And isn't that what female orgasm is about (at least in the area of procreation) -- increasing the odds?  Also, ejaculation for a male is possible without orgasm.  So again, orgasm not needed.

As Adamcrisis points out, our near relatives in the animal kingdom use sex for MANY different functions besides just procreation.  EVEN IF you subscribe to the (I think mistaken) idea that humans share some innate "nature" that is coherently separable from a "culture" that is laid on top it -- that these are two separable influences on human behavior -- you should still hold that the biological "nature" part of that division wants us humans to have sex for more than just procreation.  This is, for example, the biological explanation for the fact that human females (1) desire sex when not ovulating, and (2) do not physically announce their ovulation.  Those two traits are absent in many species -- and when they're absent, maybe it's plausible that, for that species, sex is naturally for procreation only.  But humans are not that way.  (Again, IF you think it's coherent to talk about how we're "designed" by "nature" to behave, then:) We're "designed" by "nature" to have sex for more than just procreation.

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Well, if we're going to be strict about what's "necessary" for procreation then male orgasms aren't necessary either.  Cowper's fluid (aka pre-cum) can impregnate.  Ejaculation just increases the odds.  And isn't that what female orgasm is about (at least in the area of procreation) -- increasing the odds?  Also, ejaculation for a male is possible without orgasm.  So again, orgasm not needed.

so maybe lack of female organism is evolutionary... that the ladies don't wanna get preggers  everytime they have sex.  8) now i'm just being a turd.

I always suspected my sexiness was so dangerously powerful it could destroy whole species...  ::)

well, actually, this clears up a lot for me  ;) ;D :D :P ::)

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I guess if you can have a test-tube baby, or be artificially fertilized, orgasms are not necessary for procreation.

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if female orgasms were necessary for reproduction, than the girls who dont orgams through intercourse would slowly be bred out (maybe?)

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isn't that what this is all about, though? That lack of female orgasm is a psychological rather than biological thing

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isn't that what this is all about, though? That lack of female orgasm is a psychological rather than biological thing

Well, can't the lack of male orgasm also be psychological rather than biological? I know I've read about this somewhere...

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isn't that what this is all about, though? That lack of female orgasm is a psychological rather than biological thing

well, I agree with that partially

i do think there are girls out there who just cant achieve an orgasm through intercourse alone

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isn't that what this is all about, though? That lack of female orgasm is a psychological rather than biological thing

Well, can't the lack of male orgasm also be psychological rather than biological? I know I've read about this somewhere...

its true in my personal experience

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There's such a thing as lack of male orgasm???? ::)

I mean, I definitely think it would be for both ladies and gentlemen, but there's got to be a reason it's more prevalent in females than males....so it makes sense that it's a psychological block for girls because of what society teaches about what's appropriate for girls to feel (having sex for pleasure being more of a "male" thing than female...) versus boys

Unless it's not more prevalent in ladies and I'm totally misinformed

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well, I agree with that partially

i do think there are girls out there who just cant achieve an orgasm through intercourse alone

Uh, well that would be MOST women, lol. Most women can't achieve an orgasm via intercourse alone. Beyond the entrance and excluding the g-spot a woman has little to none nerve endings in her vaginal canal. If she had a vaginal canal chock full of nerve endings, birth would be impossible. And it ALL comes down to reproduction.

Clitoral stimulation - either direct or indirect - is needed for most women to achieve orgasm. Which is pretty easy to do during intercourse if one is with the right person who is also knowledgable about a woman's body (or willing to learn). 

A woman's orgasm does aid the sperm in reaching the womb. Which is why some researchers proposed the theory that the clitoris being up there is yet another way of weeding out the best mate from the lackluster ones. The male who can help a female to orgasm will have the best chance of impregnating her. Let the best man win. ;)

Ultimately, though, (beyond having an interesting discussion) does it really matter? Women have an awesome little button which is 100 times more sensitive than the head of a penis, never needs time to re-charge, is capable of intense and multiple orgasms ... and is always ready for a good time. I don't know about other women ... but, biologically, I could care less about its purpose. I just like it and wouldn't trade it for the world.  I mean, who else has a nifty little button that always guarantees a good time? :D ;)

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ya know, Ive heard that alot....and either its not as common as its made out, or Ive just been one lucky fella

Although I do tend to date more...ummm, outgoing ladies

I also think alot of girls suffer from a sever lack of communication with their mates about what they like, how their body works....ect ect. I try to tell girls who are shy about that kind of stuff...that if the dude is of any quality, he'll be interested and want to know.

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