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being vegan in India

I'm watching "Andrew Zimmer in Delhi" and they're showing how .. much of the milk in India is dervied from local farmers that have maybe 1 cow, and they milk the cow and then sell the milk to various locals.  Traditionally in India, the cow is revered and considered sacred.

So, i have to wonder out loud (not necessarily thinking there's any one "right" answer - just thinking this is an interesting situation to post for others)... if i was ever to travel to India (by the blessing of Kali) and was offered any type of "dairy" based dish - while at the same time knowing the dairy was purchased from a local farmer - would i still be inclined to refuse based on my perceptions/attempts at following a vegan lifestyle.

There's a separate issue worth mentioning,which I'd like to mention and then put aside, if at least for the sake of conversation only. If I was in a different country and culture - it could perhaps be seen as very offensive if i was not to accept whatever was offered.  That is something that would need to be taken into consideration in it's own right but ...i'm going to put that aside for the sake of this thread, because i want to focus more on the content of the dairy source and how it would relate to consuming dairy that was derived in a manner that is compassionate of the animal - and less of the social customs.

I'm not even going to look at this thread again, so if any more personal attacks are made against me, someone else please report them.

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Ugh, I'm so not interested in discussing the discussion tactics anymore.  Sirdid asked if drinking milk was a vegan thing to do.  I said no it isn't.  Implicit in that statement is "I THINK it isn't."  Meanwhile, five other people said "No it isn't." 

I'd just like a response to the questions I posed above because I think they would create some accountability.  If you disagree, I'd like to know why, rather than what you think of my word choices. 

i'm not really partial to whether or not you're interested or not in discussing the discussion tactics.  It's like i said earlier in this thread - if you conduct yourself in a certain manner - there's no logic in getting bent out of shape when someone actually replies in kind.  If you're that "not interested" in discussing "discussion tactics" - simply bear that in mind when you communicate going foward.

I didn't ask if drinking milk was a vegan thing to do - i asked a more detailed question then that.

As far as "accountability" - you'll forgive me if i'm a bit confused why anyone who is a stranger to me is asking for "accountability"?  Maybe i'm just not properly understanding your choice of words then.

In regards to your longer post above - i'll make this very simple. About a month or two ago, i started a thread about "what is a vegan? what does being vegan mean to you?" - http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=28786.0.  I also seem to remember this reply:

Being vegan is doing the least amount of harm.  The end.

That's a very "open" statement - that can be interpreted in so many ways.

If you'd like to open that discussion back up, for the sake of having a general discussion across the forum - i think it'd be an awesome topic and would love to engage in that discussion.  Bear in mind, when i say this, i'm talking about having an open, free discussion about our respective looks on veganism and what it means to us. I'm not talking about wasting one another's time challenging each other's beliefs nor am i talking about trying to put on one person on trial - so if you post on there w/that intent - don't bother.

If though, you think "wow - this could be a cool topic to talk about and get a well rounded viewpoint of how similar and different people's views might be" - by all means, i encourage you to post there.

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the end.

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Ugh, I'm so not interested in discussing the discussion tactics anymore.

We're all with you.  Pages ago.

Like I wrote, it's not about this thread.  It's about trying not to do this again on another thread.  Although I'm sure we will. 

why would people continue to post how "they no longer want to post about such and such" - when doing so only further propagates that which they claim not to want to post about?

further, why would people conduct themselves in a particular manner (look a few pages prior on this thread) and then complain how they don't like when people "call them" on the those actions.

*** shakes head in bewilderment ***

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I'm not even going to look at this thread again, so if any more personal attacks are made against me, someone else please report them.

that's so funny - actually!

someone that we knew had a cow as a pet

I'm sure you meant companion animal.

you presume to speak for someone else (and made sure to put the word "sure" in italics) but then get upset when that same person (myself) takes exception to you "being so sure what I meant"....

you're so innocent, it's just me, i'm a bad bad person....

self responsibility ... self responsibility ... self responsibility ...

the end.

if you want a thread to end, ummm...i might suggest "not posting on it" ... posting on a thread that you desire to end seems a bit counterproductive to me, but that's just ... me ...

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Have mercy.  This is the biggest, longest evasion tactic I have ever seen on vegweb.  You have written pages.  You are purposefully avoiding the specific questions posed about the topic, or responding to them as an afterthought.  "Well, that wasn't the question."  OK, say something useful?

The conversation IS open--you think of veganism as this open, fluid, hazy ideal--many of us don't.  You are mistaking our disagreement for being closeminded.  People aren't closeminded for disagreeing with you.

You can't seem to articulate how you think drinking milk fits into the "doing the least harm" principle that hh proposed and which I actually posed several pages ago.  The rest of us have.  You shut down every single topic that I opened.  I'm done with you.  I regret the time I've spent on this thread.

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Not a troll - a god!  Milk is used as a sacred offering to Hindu gods.  It's a miracle!

Apparently you don't know much about Hinduism, and you also seem to like to read things into peoples statements that weren't said. Here's a link and a quote so you can be more educated on the Hindu faith and how they look upon the cow. I would venture a guess that your statement could be moderately offensive to someone of the Hindu faith. Here's to avoiding it next time. /cheers

Quote from the wiki page for Hinduism, found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

Ahimsa and vegetarianism
Main articles: Ahimsa and Vegetarianism and religion

Hindus advocate the practice of ahiṃsā (non-violence) and respect for all life because divinity is believed to permeate all beings, including plants and non-human animals. The term ahiṃsā appears in the Upanishads, the epic Mahabharata and Ahiṃsā is the first of the five Yamas (vows of self-restraint) in Patanjali's Yoga Sutras.

In accordance with ahiṃsā, many Hindus embrace vegetarianism to respect higher forms of life. Vegetarianism is propagated by the Yajur Veda and it is recommended for a satvic (purifying) lifestyle. Estimates of the number of lacto vegetarians in India (includes adherents of all religions) vary between 20% and 42%. The food habits vary with the community and region, for example some castes having fewer vegetarians and coastal populations relying on seafood. Some Hindus avoid onion and garlic, which are regarded as rajasic foods. Some avoid meat only on specific holy days.

Observant Hindus who do eat meat almost always abstain from beef. The cow in Hindu society is traditionally identified as a caretaker and a maternal figure, and Hindu society honors the cow as a symbol of unselfish giving.

Cow-slaughter is legally banned in almost all states of India. See further discussion at Cattle in Religion and Food taboo.

-----

The Cow is held in such high esteem, that people of that religious belief do not eat them, but look upon them as a motherly figure who gives milk to her children (people of the Hindu faith), as a parent would grow a garden to feed their child.

As for some of the other posters.. well, I haven't read about any personal attacks. I've seen people disagree with each other in this thread.. and then come the immature, belittling, childish responses.  /shrug

As for the main topic nearly 10 pages back.. No, it wouldn't be "vegan" to drink the milk, but it would be respectful to do so, in my mind at least. I respect people of faith.

Sirdidymus37 -  Thanks for the thread, I've never thought about being in this situation, and it's enlightening to discuss it and to consider what my choices would be in that situation. At this point, however, it's probably best to move on. It doesn't seem like your going to get many more responses on the original subject.

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and Speak, don't call respected members of the vegweb community trolls again, k?  thanks

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and Speak, don't call respected members of the vegweb community trolls again, k?  thanks

If they were acting respectful, I wouldn't have.

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 I'll drink some milk and they'll forgive me.

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and Speak, don't call respected members of the vegweb community trolls again, k?  thanks

If they were acting respectful, I wouldn't have.

what is the definition of a troll to you?  And it's interesting that your 3 post have been negative.  Maybe you are the troll, huh?

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 I'll drink some milk and they'll forgive me.

As I said, lack of respect.

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what is the definition of a troll to you?  And it's interesting that your 3 post have been negative.  Maybe you are the troll, huh?

If you would like my opinion on the definition of a troll, you should send me a private message. If you would like the opinion of the community on the definition of a troll, you should start a new discussion and debate thread. This thread is about being Vegan in India, more specifically, "What would you do if you were in a Hindu families home and they offered you milk?".

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what is the definition of a troll to you?  And it's interesting that your 3 post have been negative.  Maybe you are the troll, huh?

If you would like my opinion on the definition of a troll, you should send me a private message. If you would like the opinion of the community on the definition of a troll, you should start a new discussion and debate thread. This thread is about being Vegan in India, more specifically, "What would you do if you were in a Hindu families home and they offered you milk?".

Actually, no - Sirdidymus never said anything about being in a Hindu person's home.  He only posed the scenario of traveling in India & being offered a dairy-based dish.  You assumed it would be in a Hindu person's home.

And also, I am glad that Lubi didn't send you a PM as I was also curious about your definition of a troll because it doesn't fit with the people here at whom you directed the term.  Disagreeing & engaging in debate with a purpose is not "trolling."

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I'm watching "Andrew Zimmer in Delhi" and they're showing how .. much of the milk in India is dervied from local farmers that have maybe 1 cow, and they milk the cow and then sell the milk to various locals.  Traditionally in India, the cow is revered and considered sacred.

So, i have to wonder out loud (not necessarily thinking there's any one "right" answer - just thinking this is an interesting situation to post for others)... if i was ever to travel to India (by the blessing of Kali) and was offered any type of "dairy" based dish - while at the same time knowing the dairy was purchased from a local farmer - would i still be inclined to refuse based on my perceptions/attempts at following a vegan lifestyle.

There's a separate issue worth mentioning,which I'd like to mention and then put aside, if at least for the sake of conversation only. If I was in a different country and culture - it could perhaps be seen as very offensive if i was not to accept whatever was offered.  That is something that would need to be taken into consideration in it's own right but ...i'm going to put that aside for the sake of this thread, because i want to focus more on the content of the dairy source and how it would relate to consuming dairy that was derived in a manner that is compassionate of the animal - and less of the social customs.

Check the bold. They are considered sacred because of the Hindu faith. That was SirD's first post in this topic. As far as the definition of the term, see my previous post.

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I can't pm you because you don't have a profile.  Why don't you give me your email address, and we can talk?

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I can't pm you because you don't have a profile.  Why don't you give me your email address, and we can talk?

Profile is fixed. Didn't know I had to have it enabled for PM's.

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sorry, I didn't realize we had to be subscribers to send messages.  But you can find me, and alot of others on facebook.  Vegweb has a page too!  Why don't you try to get to know us before you judge us.  You might actually like us if you give us a chance!!

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Dear AllyChristine,

You "private messaged" me - just to say the following? 

I don't know WHY I feel the need to do this, but FTR, I was joking about the companion animal thing. The whole freaking thing is blown out of proportion, it's not anywhere near an actual discussion, and I couldn't even begin to be sure of anything that you think, or say. Nor do I have a desire to. Jeez. Don't make anymore personal attacks against me, or single me out to berate me. Learn what a personal attack is. If I quoted your "cow as pet" thing, and said, "sirdidymus is dumb for saying this, and he continues to be dumb on the forums," or whatever the hell, that would have been a personal attack. If you do continue post things that are against the rules, I will continue to report the posts, and hope that you be banned. Otherwise, I'll just ignore you.

With everything going on throughout this thread - i'm not sure why you thought your comment would be funny?    Was i really supposed to know you were joking?

Yes, it was blown out of proportion. I agree, for which i absolutely had a part to play.  With all of your posts and now your PM telling me to stop making "personal attacks" - you never once acknowledged your contribution, how you and your friends were "having fun" a few pages back on this thread.

You conduct yourself in a certain manner but then you get upset when people call you on this behavior.

Not sure what else to tell you ...

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Isn't it called a private message because its supposed to stay private?

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