Combatting Biblical excuses to eating animals- scriptures listed
Hi. From my own experience, I would venture to guess a lot of us hear the excuse that it's ok to eat animals due to it "saying it's ok in the Bible" and that "God gave us dominion over the animals" bullsh*t. (Although I believe Jesus was a truly enlightened and good person, who never intended his teachings to be used to harm and be an excuse to murder so many people, I do not believe everything in the Bible is accurate . Nor do I believe Christianity is the only, or best, way to become enlightened- nor any one religion for that matter.)
In order to refute the stupidity of the Biblical excuses to eating animals, I have gathered a list of Biblical scripturesthat show should NOT eat meat and am listing them here for anyone else who may wish to use them. I know there are more that refer to it not being ok to eat meat/animals, and am hoping others will post what they find here so we can get a thorough list of them. It just bugs me to no end when people use this pathetic excuse to justify their own selfishness of killing other sentient beings because they like the taste of meat or are too lazy or scared to incorporate a new way of living and thinking.
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Genesis 1.29: God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree, which bears fruit yielding seed. It will be your food.
Genesis 9.4: But flesh with its life, its blood, you shall not eat.
Leviticus 3.17: It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.... See More
Leviticus 17.10: And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
Leviticus 17.12: Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
Leviticus 17.14: For as to the life of all flesh, its blood is with its life: therefore I said to the children of Israel, "You shall not eat the blood of any kind of flesh; for the life of all flesh is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off."
1 Samuel 14.32-33: And the people flew upon the spoil, and took sheep, and oxen, and calves, and slew them on the ground: and the people did eat them with the blood. Then they told Saul, saying, Behold, the people sin against the LORD, in that they eat with the blood. And he said, Ye have transgressed: roll a great stone unto me this day.
Acts 15.20: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15.29: That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Isaiah 1.5: Saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of the goats. When ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear, for your hands are full of blood.
Isaiah 66.3: He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man.
This reminds me of a book my husband (a Unitarian Universalist divinity student) has: http://www.amazon.com/Bible-According-Noah-Theology-Mattered/dp/1930051328
It doesn't give you Biblical ammunition to argue animal rights, exactly, but instead, the author takes some of the most famous violent stories from the Old Testament, e.g. Abraham & Isaac, and explains how they were rooted in current events/culture of the time and were not entirely literal even then, let alone now. He explains and reinterprets each one in light of modern Western culture and morals, with much more peaceful resolution. It makes some great points about how the Bible has just as strong a message of nonviolence and pacifism, depending on where you look.
Really, you can find anything you want there. Which is frustrating, but is also probably my favorite thing about the Bible.
I think it's awesome if you're able to harness that to help enlighten people - as long as you're also giving them the facts about why it's important to try to live a cruelty-free life. IMHO, invoking people's emotions can help get their attention, but only really if you can do it without offending them, and they're going to also need a working knowledge of why and how their actions are effecting change to motivate them to do the right thing.
Great idea for a thread, & undoubtedly useful compilation for many folks! - I prob'ly shouldn't even comment here, since I think monotheistic book religions (christianity included) are non-positive entities, best avoided; and I tend to wander off & lose interest when people start quoting from whatever book it is, to justify whatever it is they wanna do...
When people do the 'god wants us to eat them/ that's what they're here for' thing, what I hear is 'i don't have any reality-based support for my food choices, but I want to do it, so let's go with presumption of supernatural support...' To me, it's the same as saying it's ok to bomb whoever because 'God is on our side;' or discriminate against gay people b/c jehovah doesn't approve of sodomy; or saying (as virtually ALL american christian churches once did) that human slavery is yahweh's divine will; etc etc etc... people have always and forever used the bible (/koran/etc) to justify whatever it is they want to do. Why should food choices be any different?!
I wish they'd just say, 'Well, I eat meat because I'm in the habit of doing it, I like doing it, and I want the pleasure of continuing to do it, regardless of any other factor. My personal pleasure is more important to me than anything else.'
At least then I could give 'em points for honesty... the religious justification thing is SUCH crap. Glad you guys have plenty to counter it with... but the bottom line may go unchanged: they want to, and that's all! History shows that gods can be made to say *anything*, in justification of human desires.
Anyway... just had to chime in, b/c I've rolled my eyes SO many times at this kind of bs. Sorry I can't contribute any biblical support for our position here; my take is that it doesn't matter WHAT the bible says; killing for greed/ on a whim/ for momentary pleasure is wrong, whether or not anyone's god says so. But there's some good stuff here, re: resource material for the multitudes who see it differently... good work!
;)b
Thank you Lauuren and Hotcooknmama for your replies. I agrree with all of the points you both have brought up. ;)b Despite knowing it may not change anyone's mind who's using the Bible as a justification to their to eating meat (killing animals, in other words), it just makes me feel a bit better having something to refute them with from their own so-called "rock of justification." A bit silly on my part perhaps, but... :P ;) And then again, you never know~ I have seen some surprised and thoughtful, contemplative looks on some people's faces when I gave them those verses back after they justified eating animals from a biblical standpoint; it seemed to take them back. And then sometimes, I think, if some seeds can be planted just enough to get their attention they might eventually blossom and some may actually try out veg later on. So many of us come at it from different areas of being awakened: some for health; some for animal welfare; some for the environment; and (here in the Midwest at least) so many of us act unthinkingly according to the religious dogma we have been conditioned with and will sometimes come at things from religious slants, so if vegetariansim can be shown to be condoned and encouraged inthe Bible, all the better. (I believe Seventh Day Adventists are a Christian-based religion who teach vegetarianism to a big degree.) Anyway, my post was just to try to find if there are more biblical verses that support eating veg*n and not killing or eating animals just so I-- and others who may want to know-- have a whole arsenol of them to counter-act any reasons thrown out to condone eating them. Just happens quite a lot around here (Missouri/Kansas/Midwest). Probably most everywhere I'd imagine. :)
Using those quotes may not work on educated religious persons; the injunctions against eating blood are just that. These were the rules of keeping kosher; flesh was fine to eat, but blood itself was not. The only biblical argument I can think of is that in our original state in the garden of Eden, we were intended to only eat plants, but after the fall of man, we were given the directive to eat meat. So to be closer to God's original intent, we should eat only plants.
I'm afraid that most people who have to resort to a biblical argument to justify eating animals are not going to be convinced, but I wish you luck!
I have to agree with Cherizac...you can't combat deeply held ideologies from the outside. The change has to come from within. The person has to come to a point in their life where they want to change their mind. Some are helped by books, others by documentaries, but for a lot of people, nothing another person can say will make any difference. My husband has often said that if he had to kill an animal to eat it, he wouldn't be able to...and I'm afraid that the bottom line is that while people can buy santised plastic packages of bits that don't look anything like the animal they came from, the immense majority will continue to do just that.
hmmm i dunno, my dad is like super religious scholar (has his masters in divinity) and i was talking to him about how meat was oked for man to eat only during/after the flood (heard that from someone on here.. lol) and he agreed, so i'm pretty sure it didn't have to do with the fall of man.
i had different ideas about what the fall of man meant in terms of food when i was a religious person, i'm not anymore, but when i talk to religious people seriously about this type of thing i bring up those two things.
THE BIBLOL
THE BIBLOL
;)b
Blast from the past thread with some good schtuff:
attn members of the Christian faith
Thank you Lauuren and Hotcooknmama for your replies. I agrree with all of the points you both have brought up. ;)b Despite knowing it may not change anyone's mind who's using the Bible as a justification to their to eating meat (killing animals, in other words), it just makes me feel a bit better having something to refute them with from their own so-called "rock of justification." A bit silly on my part perhaps, but... :P ;)
Not at all! Give 'em hell, sister! er, so to speak. ;)
Who knows what's gonna plant the good seeds, for different folks? People value different stuff, so it's good to have a diverse 'kindness arsenal'! (wait, that doesn't sound right... o well, you know what I mean...)
i don't think God would ever approve of the way we currently misuse animals... i believe he is disgusted.... factory farming is a sin and God has punished humans for it... new cancers and new diseases to name a few
check out the Christian Vegetarian Association's word's on the subject:
http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/honoring.htm
just so you know... bible people, generally, cannot be convinced of anything. as soon as something doesn't make sense... that's where faith comes in.
get it straight.
in the old days humans ate animals out of necessity, these days we don't need to eat animals out of necessity, we choose to. i believe God would prefer it if humans did not eat animals
just so you know... bible people, generally, cannot be convinced of anything. as soon as something doesn't make sense... that's where faith comes in.
Assuming by "bible people" you mean Christians, or more broadly, people of any Abrahamic faith...(?) I always thought it worked the *opposite* way. As in, people raised in those faiths are often taught the best way to live their values is to espouse certain beliefs without question, and then, later in life, something forces them to confront those questions, resulting in religious impasse.
hmm... no... i mean more like...
we can't explain thunder, so it must be the gods. nope. science fixed that.
we can't explain sun, so it must be a god. nope. science fixed that.
we can't explain... etc, etc, etc... so we just gotta have faith that god is in control.
hmm... no... i mean more like...
we can't explain thunder, so it must be the gods. nope. science fixed that.
we can't explain sun, so it must be a god. nope. science fixed that.
we can't explain... etc, etc, etc... so we just gotta have faith that god is in control.
Oh I see. Although I would add that most religions, organized or not, have always followed that line of reasoning in trying to make sense of the world, whether they're interpreting the Bible or tea leaves to reach that conclusion.
I totally agree with this:
you can't combat deeply held ideologies from the outside. The change has to come from within. The person has to come to a point in their life where they want to change their mind. Some are helped by books, others by documentaries, but for a lot of people, nothing another person can say will make any difference. and I'm afraid that the bottom line is that while people can buy santised plastic packages of bits that don't look anything like the animal they came from, the immense majority will continue to do just that.
and this:
just so you know... bible people, generally, cannot be convinced of anything. as soon as something doesn't make sense... that's where faith comes in.
get it straight.
...with due props to Cherizac and Lauuren, and Amy's handy link (for those who do believe in/follow the bible).
Thanks for posting this, FF...
...and Thanks to HH for pulling up that old thread full of other good references.
While I haven't had to deal with this (yet) myself, I know that a lot of Us on here have to defend Our actions to friends and family who take their faith--and its rule-book--very seriously.
just so you know... bible people, generally, cannot be convinced of anything. as soon as something doesn't make sense... that's where faith comes in.
Assuming by "bible people" you mean Christians, or more broadly, people of any Abrahamic faith...(?) I always thought it worked the *opposite* way. As in, people raised in those faiths are often taught the best way to live their values is to espouse certain beliefs without question, and then, later in life, something forces them to confront those questions, resulting in religious impasse.
Here's the central issue/ conflict/ philosophical difference, it seems to me:
'I believe it, therefore it's true'; vs 'evidence seems to suggest that this is true, so I believe it until I'm convinced otherwise.'
I think LL's comments are helpful in that IF a person is coming from perspective 1, as above, it makes no difference presenting arguments from perspective 2; IF it's the case that THE key component of your particular belief system is 'It's true because I believe' or 'I must believe, because I stipulate that this is all true', then other arguments are bound to fall on (deliberately) deaf ears... that would be, I guess, the 'religious impasse.'
That said, I think the OP's point is very valid, in that many people who are traditionally from religious backgrounds may be subject to 'thought seeds' based upon their book of preference... and regardless of origin point, good thought-seeds tend to have good effects in the world. Whether someone says, 'yes I see it now! god wants me to eat plants!' OR 'hey wait, this is all just ****, I'm gonna do what seems right to me regardless of metaphysical input'... less harm is less harm, and is commendable regardless of ideological sourcing. If it takes biblical scriptures to get there, woot for scriptures (and, believe me: I don't say that often)! :)
^ ^ ^ ^ what she said.
in the ideal of the ultimate peace, the lion lays down with the lamb.
while not saying its wrong to kill (and at this point i am not vegetarian but aiming) it says to me that the ultimate goal or at least what the subconcious knows is that meatless IS better.
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