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Honey

Eating honey is not vegan.

Discuss.

I know this has been talked about many a time on VW, but I would like to be involved in the discussion. If you aren't interested in debating if/why/etc. eating honey is not/is vegan, then don't post!

I feel like we need to sponsor oww on a trip to the States and eat pumpkin pie and make s'mores and go trick-or-treating. 

;)b

all donations to the under-priviledged new zealand children fund will be gratefully accepted. don't delay, donate today!

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OWW,
I hope you can try a smore someday, they are ooey gooey good!

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OWW,
I hope you can try a smore someday, they are ooey gooey good!

Seconded! The are a fantastic invention of improvised campside yumminess!

In so far as this thread is concerned, it has been interesting reading and enlightening...actually has inspired me to specify my diet as vegetarian so as to avoid confusion with the vegan philosophy / lifestyle. Its a distinction I would not have thought of had I not read this.

On a related note, there should be a "strict vegetarian" header under the VegFriends profile selection for Diet.

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On a related note, there should be a "strict vegetarian" header under the VegFriends profile selection for Diet.

Let 'em know --> here

They're going to rework the site, so maybe they can add that in.

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Honey is a weird one... though i don't eat it... im confused though... so i'm not supposed to kill flies, spiders, ants?!?! I do, so I feel like a hypocrite I don't eat honey but I murder pests... i dunno it is hard to grasp the whole cruelty to pests thing... so nobody here kills flies and stuff?

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so nobody here kills flies and stuff?

Not on purpose, and I hate when I do it accidentally. I just try to get them outdoors, and if they are already outdoors, why mess with them!
P doesn't have a problem killing bugs, though. Well, maybe a problem..but not a big enough one.  : \

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The approach with bugs - if it's going to harm you first, you're simply protecting yourself.
i.e mosquitoes.

Like I've said before - bugs are animals and are in our kingdom.
If you can avoid harm, do so.
If it's unavoidable, then you shouldn't feel bad.

never harm something simply because you can.

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Honey is a weird one... though i don't eat it... im confused though... so i'm not supposed to kill flies, spiders, ants?!?! I do, so I feel like a hypocrite I don't eat honey but I murder pests... i dunno it is hard to grasp the whole cruelty to pests thing... so nobody here kills flies and stuff?

I know a lot of people here will "catch and release" spiders and other critters in their house.  I do that as well, whenever I can.

I mean, there might be times when you end up killing bugs, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether you choose to eat honey.  I think being vegan is about taking the most possible opportunities you can to spare suffering.  So, if it's easy to abstain from honey, do it!  If it's easy to avoid squashing that spider, do it!

It's the "carpe diem" approach to veganism, rather than the "I'm not 100% consistent 100% of the time, so why bother?" mindset, which is rather defeating.

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Being vegan is about doing the least amount of harm. 

How I apply that here is that if I had carpenter ants eating my house, I'd kill them.  If there were carpenter ants in a tree outside, I'd let them be. 

In terms of spiders, I relocate the spiders in my house outside.  Even the occassional black widow.  I had to go into a tight crawl space and there was a black widow there and I killed her because I couldn't capture her and there was an elevated risk of harm.  I've probably killed two spiders in the past decade.

For flies, I do what I can to keep flies out of my space.  If they're in my house beating themselves against a window, I'll open the window and remove the screen so they can fly out.  I find an occassional carcass on my window sill, so I don't save them all. 

Way before I was vegan I lived in a hot, arid climate and had little black ants in my kitchen all the time.  I realized they were there for water and put bowls of water by the crack they came in through.  They drank at the water bowls and left.  Easy as that and no more ants in my kitchen.

CCD (Colony Collapse Disorder) is causing massive amounts of bee dieoffs.  They had an update on this on NPR a couple of days ago.  It's still not known what causes CCD because it's likely a combination of many factors.  There are some localized issues, such as pesticide use, but a lot of the issues are tied to migratory beekeeping.  Bees are moved between continents and within contentints, which spreads Varroa mites, pathogens, and virus'.

I liken consuming honey to consuming milk.  If someone can understand, internally, why they don't drink milk, it's the same as why they wouldn't consume honey.

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I liken consuming honey to consuming milk.  If someone can understand, internally, why they don't drink milk, it's the same as why they wouldn't consume honey.

Yes!  It really is just like that.

Also, the water bowl for the ants is really, really cute!

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Ha!  I don't know if it makes it more or less cute that I gave them fresh water daily and put a bit of towel in the bowls so the ants that were treading water could crawl out.  I used to say I had to go home and water my ants.

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Ha!  I don't know if it makes it more or less cute that I gave them fresh water daily and put a bit of towel in the bowls so the ants that were treading water could crawl out.  I used to say I had to go home and water my ants.

Very much less cute! ; )

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The ants were still very cute, but the human was more pathetic.  I worried over my ants like I worried over Cat.

eta:  I had to turn my computer back on to explain this.  It's because once I take responsibilty, even partially, for another living being's health, I'm filled with stress and pressure and purpose and intent.

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The only main-brand graham crackers I've found sans honey is Keebler cinnamon, which are hard to find even though Keebler is a mainsteam brand. Sometimes I've gotten the health food store ones, which do qualify as crackers (not sweet at all!!), and a few other times I've gotten Mexican brand cookies that sound like graham crackers (Ricanelas http://www.mexgrocer.com/5031.html ). This time around, I used Hob Nobs, which are a good substitute... more molasses-y than a graham cracker, but I probably like them better anyway.

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Those r all valid points... i'll let the bugs be i suppose... great a spider just started crawling on my wall in front of me... how ironic... my first relocation attempt begins :) wish me luck

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I've never been the type of person that freaks out when they see a spider or bugs.  I would hate the thought of mice in my house, but those things you plug in have always done the trick when I had a problem, plus I have a cat, and she would get to anything much quicker than I would

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Those r all valid points... i'll let the bugs be i suppose... great a spider just started crawling on my wall in front of me... how ironic... my first relocation attempt begins :) wish me luck

I keep yogurt cups in almost every room and when I see one, I cover it with a cup, slide a stiff piece of paper underneath, and carry it outside. Its really easy! Occasionally, the edge of the cup smooshes the spider, but not very often.

Don't the bees make excess honey so they will have it to eat over the winter? Or something like that?
It seems mean to take it away after they worked so hard to make it.
Local honey is HUGE around here and people just don't get why I don't want to eat it.

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I've been the spider-relocator since, like, elementary school. I INVENTED the glass/stiff paper technique!

But to be honest, recently I've killed some bugs. Roaches and ants invading my apartment! I feel like the roach thing is justified because (1) the manager probably wouldn't want it any other way... (other apartments and stuff) and (2) relocating a couple doesn't solve the problem. With the ants, I've never found a nice way to deal with an invasion. I tried EVERYTHING a couple years ago when this happened, and all that cayenne pepper/paprika/peppermint oil/cinnamon stuff doesn't work if the ants are hell bent on your food/water. I wound up using a non-chemical but lethal method: yeast mixed into molasses :( I feel bad about it though. I like ants! I relate to them and their society thing.

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Just want to join the spider-relocater club.

Yeah, we also kill bugs when it's an "us or them" situation (I'm looking at you, fruit flies), but I still feel like crap about it. Every time, I end up saying, "Why's you pick our house? Why not the compost heap, or - even better - the neighbors compost heap?"

Oh, well.

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