To add to the links about harm, bees (honey) and moths (silk) are both insects, so by definition they are animals.

Kingdom:      Animalia
Phylum:        Arthropoda
Subphylum:  Mandibulata
Superclass:  Hexapoda
Class:          Insecta

I'm doing this new diet for myself, not the animals. I'm a firm believer in reincarnation and in that we chose to come into the bodies that we are in. Because of this, I don't pity anyone, because they chose this experience from their non-physical perspective. So, I don't want to consume animal products for my body's sake (I do feel better since I've started this), but I don't mind the use of animals for product development like silk. What label does this mindset earn? The term "vegan" is starting to feel a little gimmicky to me, and it seems like the local stores are noticing that it is easier to charge 50% more for a product if they use the word. I bought "no chicken base" the other day which contains no animal products and is made of vegetables instead of their "vegan vegetable base" (made by the same company) because it was $4 instead of $7.

On a lighter note, another one of our stores sells "vegetarian chicken" but it contains eggs.  Is that only funny to me?

"You are of no advantage to anyone who has your negative attention." - Abraham Hicks
Good day, all.

People who eat a vegan diet but choose not to incorporate vegan ideals into the rest of their life (ie silk, wool, leather, etc) are strict vegetarians, or dietary vegans.

If you're not buying packaged products, being vegan is much cheaper. Vegetables, tofu, rice, fruit are all cheap and bountiful. I know what you mean about products being labeled "vegan" and costing more--it really makes you wonder what kind of crap they're putting in the non-vegan goods that they can sell them so cheap. No, wait, I don't want to know!

New question: How would a vegan deal with a flea or tick infested pet? Is there a vegan friendly way to chase the fleas and ticks away without killing them? We spend most of our time in the woods, and since we've started this new diet, I have not been bit by a single tick (or any biting flies either, pretty neat to me), and our friends have been bitten, and my mighty trail dog has as well. 
Here's another question- my husband has had joint pain in his elbow since before I've known him, and the only thing that has helped has been glucosamine and chondroitin, which is made up of sea creatures?! What's a good substitute to relieve his tennis-elbow pain?
And one more - I've avoided pills for years, and the most effective allergy-fighter (necessary in my neck of the woods) has been local honey (helps build up your immunity).  My husband still sneaks honey on his english muffins every now and then, but I have not been buying anything with honey in it (just to be consistent), and the last time I tried honey, it made me sick. So, maybe it is no good, but what would anyone recommend for allergies? We have so many trees and plants around here its insane.

Also, I talked to a friend who was curious about vegans (which we are not, but we mimic the diet), and he said that he had watched a report on it, and they said that vegans will not eat grains either because they have to be harvested and cruelly ripped away from where they were living, and the only things they will eat are fruits or vegetables that had naturally fallen away from where they had grown. Any comments on this?

Oh, and one more thing (I know, I know. They've been building up). I know of another couple of vegans who went out to eat with a non-veggie-person, and that person ordered a pasta soaked in cream sauce and loaded with chicken. She could not finish it, and when the waitress tried to bring her a to-go box, she said that she would not be heading home soon enough to eat it. One of the vegans (even though she was full) forced herself to eat it because she said that someone had already killed the chicken and taken the milk from the cow, and that it could not be wasted. Is that for real? Because, with the same mind-set, should we not all head out and try to buy up every ounce of milk and meat we see at the store for the same reason? Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe that girl was a nut.  Your thoughts?

Okay, the last paragraph is ridiculous. Totally not vegan. That's like saying eating roadkill is cool because the animal is already dead. It makes the vegan look like their values are weak and they do not adhere to their own personal beliefs. This makes it pretty much impossible to try and spread the word on how awesome veganism is to other people, if they see you "cheating" on your vegan diet. I hesitate to even use the word cheat, because that implies that we're all just dying to sneak some meat and cheese when nobody is looking. It's really not that way. People like to use the idea that the milk/eggs/meat are already harvested and ready, thus it's their responsibility to eat it. If nobody had this idea, if nobody decided to eat it, then the supply would dwindle in response to the low demand. All this woman did was reinforce the idea that if there are available animal products, then there will be a consumer for them. The girl was a nut.

I eat grains. I've yet to meet a grain with cognitive though or a functional nervous system. Although some animals and insects are harmed in the harvesting of grains, if done in an organic, practical fashion this should be minimized. Veganism is not about being perfect, it's about making the least amount of impact and harm possible. Some people like to use this as an argument against veganism. My argument back is that the majority of crops grown around the world are used to feed livestock. If everyone stopped their meat consumption, we could grow a lot less grain and harm fewer animals.

As for the fleas and ticks--I personally feel like I need to take care of my dog. I feed him garlic and brewers yeast, which I've read make him less palatable to ticks and fleas, so I'm trying to prevent an infestation to begin with. If he does become infested, I will kill the fleas. I don't know how others feel about this, but I will take care of him as much as I am able to. If I were to get a parasite infection, I would kill it. I'm not planning on hosting any specimens other than my own bacterial flora (and the usual. You know what I mean).

And the medications...this is tricky. You need to do what you can to take care of yourself. People have asked this about prescription medications before, too, since they are tested on animals. We have to take care of ourselves, keep ourselves healthy. It's just what the omni world needs is to see sick vegans! Your husband could search for another medication that does not include animal products, although I personally cannot give any recommendations. Just keep looking!

You have great questions, and it sounds like you are open to new ideas. I hope I helped a little, and I hope some other VWers can chime in with their infinite wisdom.

Does your hubby avoid animal foods too? specifically dairy?

I'm sure not everyone reacts the same, but for me cutting dairy (and I mean REALLY cutting it from ALL sources/ reading food labels carefully, not just quitting consumption of actual milk & cheese) turned off emergent arthritis like someone had flipped a switch... that was months ago, & it's not recurred. Might be worth a try, if he's not already avoiding it.

From general poking about on vegan blog sites, and being a bit of a news junkie for anything tagged 'veg*n', it seems like there are two schools of thought about what is & isn't vegan... one is definition based, one is philosophy based. The former is more represented on VW forums; the latter at http://lagusta.wordpress.com/2010/03/16/on-being-a-bad-vegan-part-three-bees/#comment-3853, or http://www.slate.com/id/2248998/, and is also represented in some of the VW threads about pet-chicken eggs... By linguistics, if the textbook definition is what a person aspires to, then it's easy to check the 'vegan' or 'not vegan' box. Some folks seem embrace the philosophy behind the definition, of minimal harm/ kind living/ respect for creatures, and see exceptions where the textbook definition doesn't actually cause the least harm... and humans aren't static beings, so like any ethics issue an individual's opinion about the 'most vegan' choice, or 'how vegan' they personally try to be, often seems to change over time...

I think (rather adamantly) that dogmatic insistence that the same word mean the same thing to all people is pointless and counterproductive... Though veganism isn't a religion, I think it's a good parallel: 'You can't be Catholic and use birth control,' or 'If you support gay marriage you're not really a Baptist,' or whatever... So, yeah, just think it through, decide what's right for you, and call yourself/ avoid whatever your conscience dictates. It's yours, not anyone else's, to decide. I don't think anyone has the right to give you grief if you call yourself 'vegan' but wear silk; you're the only one who gets a vote. Just read all you can/ think it through, and make sure your choices are based on your own sense of what's right.

People interpret things differently; that's human nature. Folks just have to think it through and do the best they can. To me it's actions (vs. names/ labels/ words) that change the world, and people can call themselves whatever they want (whatever the textbook definition -- don't care!)... If someone's honestly try to live a good and ethical life, that's what's important. Words are just descriptors; it's actions that are real.

Regarding fleas & ticks: I'm a shameless Frontline/ Advantage fan. Open to suggestions -- but nothing else I've personally tried has worked. With 4 dogs & a cat, in a Southern state, as well as being a pet-health concern, I consider this a serious mental health issue! Having dealt with severe infestations before, I'll do whatever it takes to avoid repeating that experience... sorry fleas!

And I didn't know that garlic kept the fleas away.....maybe that's why they don't get fleas - their food is chocked full of garlic - their breath is awesome right after they eat!

I thought you used the Natural Balance veg.??

Nope, ours is Nature's Recipe Veg Formula - smells like straight up garlic!

Ohhh. Olen loves his Natural Balance, but I might look for that ^ sometime. (I thought dogs weren't supposed to have garlic, though!)

*Insects are animals.

Nope, ours is Nature's Recipe Veg Formula - smells like straight up garlic!

That's what we give Oliver.

AC: I've wondered about this too. I've heard dogs are not supposed to eat garlic, but then this food has it, and I've seen a couple of places where people say to give them garlic to repel fleas. There's even a company that sells a pre-made pill of garlic and brewer's yeast to ward off parasites.