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My prof i ordering me to dissect....

and i am soo torn, i know it is folearning purposes t i really don think i can go thugh with it..i aed for different pocedures (comuter program) andhe denied me that....what should i do?

in lecture todayhe was discussing a processof him administering cmicals to an animal.letting it chill for couple days then killing it...i as so disguste and shot him such a look, he caught it...

my grade will suffer if i don't participate......

idk what to do....

please...advice :-\

There should be a couple of administators you can take this to. Talk to someone else in the department.

Dissecting I can see as useful (I may not endorse it, but I can see the viewpoint), but forcing you to be involved in the termination of a life is over the line.

Definitely talk to some sort of administrator.

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the thing is...he IS the aministrator...... :'(

he views my veganismas if it's nothing.i mean if this was a eligion i don't thnk i'd be "ordered"...idk wha to do...

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Go directly to the Dean of Faculty.

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If you go above him and, if necessary, make a stink, they will very probably cave and give you an alternative.  It's worth it!  Going to the Dean is a good idea.

When you explain your reasons, make them sound as "religious" as possible.  "All life is sacred," stuff like that.  Whatever you're comfortable with.  The more religious it sounds, the more terrified they'll be to deny you.

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I have lab today...no breaks before it!!!

im hoping my a will be more undersanding and..idk just make me partner up..i don mind losing a few points, but i do not want to dissect....

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I lost my shot at being valedictorian because I refused to dissect in biology - my teacher gave me a B for that even though I made up all of the work using online simulations.  The good news is that she realized how serious and passionate I was about the topic LATER, and ended up supporting the "Right To Choose" policy that I created with my best friend through our environmental club.  Our school now has a policy that says students must be given the right to choose an adequate alternative to dissection without having their grade suffer.  Check out peta2.com - they have some great information on this! 

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I lost my shot at being valedictorian because I refused to dissect in biology - my teacher gave me a B for that even though I made up all of the work using online simulations.  The good news is that she realized how serious and passionate I was about the topic LATER, and ended up supporting the "Right To Choose" policy that I created with my best friend through our environmental club.  Our school now has a policy that says students must be given the right to choose an adequate alternative to dissection without having their grade suffer.  Check out peta2.com - they have some great information on this! 

GOOD FOR YOU! Dissection is pretty unnecessary until you get into professional level training (nursing, premed, certain biologies) and then it is training to save more lives than you are taking to do the dissection...(although it still makes me sad) I don't like science classes that do it just to "enrich the learning experience" when the people who are being enriched are going to become computer programmers, secretaries, English teachers, artists, etc....

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I lost my shot at being valedictorian because I refused to dissect in biology - my teacher gave me a B for that even though I made up all of the work using online simulations.  The good news is that she realized how serious and passionate I was about the topic LATER, and ended up supporting the "Right To Choose" policy that I created with my best friend through our environmental club.  Our school now has a policy that says students must be given the right to choose an adequate alternative to dissection without having their grade suffer.  Check out peta2.com - they have some great information on this! 

Kudos!  You rock EarthGuard!

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I lost my shot at being valedictorian because I refused to dissect in biology - my teacher gave me a B for that even though I made up all of the work using online simulations.  The good news is that she realized how serious and passionate I was about the topic LATER, and ended up supporting the "Right To Choose" policy that I created with my best friend through our environmental club.  Our school now has a policy that says students must be given the right to choose an adequate alternative to dissection without having their grade suffer.  Check out peta2.com - they have some great information on this! 

That is the most awesome thing ever! You are my new hero!

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That is quite admirable EarthGuard, good job.  :)

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Dissecting I can see as useful (I may not endorse it, but I can see the viewpoint), but forcing you to be involved in the termination of a life is over the line.

I agree.  As someone who has an undergraduate and graduate degree in Biology I never had to kill the species I was dissecting.  That goes beyond necessary and I'm surprised no one else in your class had a problem with that. 

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Those animals you will be dissecting are already dead. They'll order the same amount regardless of whether you do or you do not participate. They're "package deals." So, in terms of impact, if you don't participate ... it won't be lessened at all.

I did biology in undergrad and for my masters. So, I'm more than familiar with this situation. In theory, computer models should be available. In practice, it's not always so and it's not always possible to do anything about it beyond taking a lower grade. Professors who get ten year are not really phased by administration or their rules. 

I had professors who would come into class and, literally, tell us that using a computer model would automatically result in a full lower grade. We had a vegan/vegetarian club who would come protest. We had the whole set up, too - alternative computer models, lessons, etc. But, some professors will not go for that. And, as I said, if they're a value to the university - nothing will change their stance.

So, I did the opposite of earthguard - I chose to graduate number one in my class, and got a full scholarship to grad school, plus stipend, as a result. Graduated at the top of my class there too. I ate a vegetarian diet the whole time, and became a vegan in my last year.

Since my not participating would have made no impact ... I decided to go ahead with it, and learn as much as I could. But, I always think in logical, economic terms, i.e. will my actions impact the industry? Is my money going to the industry? (It already wa in tuition - no choice about that).

Do you know where those animals are coming from? When we had cats or dogs it was from shelters, who put animals to sleep anyway. So, some of the animals weren't killed specifically for our uses.

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Yep, like ECSTATIC said, the animals will be provided already dead. If you do not dissect, you will not pass the course (at least in my program). The main thought is that by the end of the term, you will know off the top of your head how to dissect any animal given to you, and be able to identify the animal if you were just given a certain organ.

If you REALLY don't want to do it, I think you'll have to drop the class :(

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I just e-mailed my prof this:

Hello Prof.____,
    I know it is coming close to lab time and the sheep brain dissection is today. I know that I have already expressed concern regarding animal dissection to you, but it has plagued my mind since and upcoming this "project."
    I understand that hands-on and dissection is for the "educational benefit" in your course, but dissecting an animal would be against the very lifestyle I lead. I want to learn and get as much possible out of your course but I beg of you that maybe I can observe and get the "eductional benefit" of dssecting without having to go against all that I live and stand for. I know animal rights and activism along with  veganism may be seen as simply a diet choice, but it is my life. I aplogize for causing frustration. I thorougly enjoy your course and intend on attending ALL of the labs and lectures but I simply can't go through with dissecting.
Please understand, I apologize again. I truly do not wish to be a burden or of annoyace.

-Vanessa

bad? :-\

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It's off topic Breyetteyes, but I LOVE your bangs!!

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Do you know this professors "status" at your school? For instance, is he full time and ten year? Does he bring in a lot of grants? Is he famous for any research?

If all of the above are true ... you're pretty much screwed. At my university, the professors who qualified for all the above were never touched by administration. And, because, on my campus there was an animal rights club/organization who would often focus on such professors ... they were annoyed had NO sympathy for vegans. So, such emails would result in an automatic lowering to a C grade, with no hope of higher.

If the professors is part time, has no real publications out, is not responsible for grants, etc. ... then administration can influence his decision, and force him to be partial in grading you.

Are you majoring in biology? It's tough to be a biology major, while leading a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle. Do your research on the professors prior to signing up for their classes ... this way, for next time, you'll know what you're up against. But, unfortunately, the best professors from whom you will learn the most ... are usually the ones with great publications, grants, ten year, etc.

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he's brillit and has a lot of sae here....

this washis response...:

Hi Vanessa,

I understand that this is more than a diet choice.  Is this course a requirement for your major? I'd like to get a handle on which other labs you'd only be able to observe -- I'm guessing the frog compound action potential (Lab 7) and the cow eye dissection (Lab 8). What about the crayfish and cockroach labs?  If you can at least do these two, we might be able to work something out.

Please attend the lab today and explain to the TA (one-on-one, in private if necessary) your situation.  For this lab, I'll let you just observe.  However, we'll need to decide how we're going to work this out for the rest of the semester, or if that's even possible.

Thanks,
_____

he seems ernest and willng to help me mpromise somewhere...my ta was very welcoming, they just don't want me to miss out on the "education."

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It's off topic Breyetteyes, but I LOVE your bangs!!

awwww thank you...you're sooo sweet....blushes*  :-*

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In my opinion, just because the animals are already dead does not make it okay!  Often the frogs and other small animals are raised for dissection purposes.  They can also be removed from the wild (often black market) and sold to biological supply companies.  The fetal pigs and animal organs are byproducts of slaughterhouses.  Now one can argue that using slaughterhouse and animal shelter "by-products" is cutting down on waste BUT it indirectly supports meat industry and kill shelters.     

There is really no reason why a high school biology classes NEEDS to dissect animals.  There have been several studies done that prove learning from models, simulations, and diagrams teach the same information as dissection.  Dissection dates back to the medieval times when it was used by scientists to discover how bodies work.  I am pretty sure that we all know at least the basics of those procedures and do not need to repeat these experiments in the classroom.  I can understand why dissection may be part of a graduate course, but the truth is, there are better ways to learn.  Surgeons, doctors, vets, etc. can learn much more by observing actual surgeries and procedures.

I would personally choose to learn from from professors and teachers who respect my beliefs and values.  However, this is not always the case.  I know that people are vegan and vegetarian for different reasons, and dissecting, for me, violated the principles that I based my dietary choices on.  While I would have much preferred to receive an "A" in my biology class, the sacrifice was worth it.  Not only are students at my school now given the right to choose, my former teacher has changed and is much more open to opinions and alternatives. 

If you can come up with a comprehensive plan detailing how you are going to learn the class material without dissection, teachers are often responsive.  Do not apologize for your beliefs!  Instead, offer to explain them and ask for respect.  Come to a mutual agreement with your teacher and administrator.

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Also...I do not want to turn this into a debate, but just to show the other side of the story (opposite of Ecstatic):
I graduated in the top of my class because I took as many advanced placement and honors classes as my school offered.  I currently attend a highly competitive liberal arts college on a four-year, full scholarship.  I also do not have the guilt of chopping up innocent animals hanging over my head.  But that's my choice and I respect the choices that other make, regardless of whether they match mine.

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