Meat without Murder
Posted by TinTexas on Jun 17, 2007 · Member since Aug 2006 · 1216 posts
http://www.vegetariantimes.com/document/515
Would you eat meat grown in a vat that didn't require killing the animal? I'm not sure myself. Of course, the animal cruelty issue goes away for most folks. If they grew muscle cells, there wouldn't be saturated fat and it would be grown without the hormones, antibiotics and pesticide residues that are objectionable now. On the other hand, I've discovered so many fantastic foods/recipes that are so much tastier than anything I ever cooked with animal flesh. I would never want to give them up! If this becomes common place in my lifetime, it might make eating out or at someone else's home easier, though.
No, of course, it wouldn't be vegan. But if the only reason someone is vegan is for the animals and this puts the factory farms and slaughter houses out of business and there aren't the health concerns anymore, would it really be so objectionable? After they get the few cells they need, the culture could be self-sustaining. What do we want, purity for purity's sake or to save the lives of billions of animals a year and prevent the pollution via tons of waste, etc. There is no way we're going to convert the whole 6 billion people on this planet to veganism. (Most of us are finding it damn near impossible to convert our own families!) This could be the answer that gives the omnivores what they want in the least objectionable way possible and achieves our goals. We should at least consider it and not reject it out of hand.
Personally I would not eat it but I think its the lesser of two evils (factory farming vs. lab grown meat). I hope it catches on to help end animal cruelty. I don't really see it as any grosser or less gross than regular meat. I doubt that the majority on the SAD diet would care either way.
Blegh. I just don't like meat, so I would take a pass. Little2ant: the majority on the SAD diet would only be interested in the cheaper meat.
This is interesting. I would have to say no. I would not consume after everything I know now concerning meat and the role it plays. However you make a good point Tin, when you're talking about all those people that will chose never to give up meat.
The system they have now is awful. the irrigation system in this country is very poor and the animal waste is so large so it contributes to so many diseases and eccoli, also the demand is so immense that they are breeding and raising these animals in cages. They are turning these animals carnivores and forcing to eat cats and dogs.
But there still the issue where are they will constantly be abusing the poor cows and making them pregnant all the time. So that they can give milk to us until they just fall dead. :'(
I doubt that the majority on the SAD diet would care either way.
little2ant, what is a "SAD" diet means again? ???
SAD= Standard American Diet
SAD= Standard American Diet
HA!
Funny...Makes so much sense...
Here you come to my rescue again Tkitty... ;)
I'm just quite the hero here lately. <Cue Enrique Iglesias> Ha!
Okay fine you have an ego. Doesn't it go like: I can be your heeeeero? Lalalala
That's a good song I think. He's so cute too!
I don't know, to me this is just another step along the way to Frankenfood! Who knows what they'd be putting in "lab-meat" along the way: tranquilizers to quiet us down, mind-altering drugs to make us believe what we're told, hypnotics so we all march to their bidding...OK I grew up in the 60's but this sounds a lot like "the Man".
Where's Dave these days? I'd love his take on this!
I don't know, to me this is just another step along the way to Frankenfood! Who knows what they'd be putting in "lab-meat" along the way: tranquilizers to quiet us down, mind-altering drugs to make us believe what we're told, hypnotics so we all march to their bidding...OK I grew up in the 60's but this sounds a lot like "the Man".
Where's Dave these days? I'd love his take on this!
Sorry I've been out of town rehearsing and also dealing with lots of phone calls back home to check in on a very sick "Kara" doggie. :-\
I agree with you Yabbit,
It's frankenfood alright! I don't even eat vegan stuff with too many ingredients listed or GMO products. I would not "touch" that stuff or even feed it to my dogs or cats. They too deserve real food free from being something "created" in a lab and profit driven by a mega corporation.
On the other hand.....as little2ant said, it could end animal suffering and factory farming for those that choose to still eat rotting flesh. I mean if there are people out there that eat "Toaster Studel" for breakfast, I'm sure they would eat a "test tube" burger for lunch, followed by a "beaker" chicken breast for dinner as well. :o
TT - You sure do bring us interestsing stories! :)
How I would see that working is not by turning vegans to omnis, but there are omnis who think "it's too hard to be vegan" and that would be a choice for them if they didn't want to kill animals. For people who became vegan for health reasons or who just don't like meat, it wouldn't mean anything. If you're vegan for long enough the reasons start to meld together, so I can't see the animal-rights vegans ignoring the potential health risks. I mean, who is going to make this stuff - someone like ConAgra with some chemical from Monsanto. Anyone here trust them?
TT - You sure do bring us interestsing stories! :)
How I would see that working is not by turning vegans to omnis, but there are omnis who think "it's too hard to be vegan" and that would be a choice for them if they didn't want to kill animals. For people who became vegan for health reasons or who just don't like meat, it wouldn't mean anything. If you're vegan for long enough the reasons start to meld together, so I can't see the animal-rights vegans ignoring the potential health risks. I mean, who is going to make this stuff - someone like ConAgra with some chemical from Monsanto. Anyone here trust them?
Oh, I do! Big corporations have nothing but our best interests in mind! ::)
OK I've been away from the States for a quarter-century--Is "toaster strudel" your basic PopTart? My mother would seldom let us have those when we were kids...we thought they were great until we'd actually eaten a few! :P (GOD how you hate to admit your parents were right!!) ::)
Personally, I would not ever consider eating that. But then I have food allergies and meats & dairy are on the list.
Perhaps if enough omni's eat it then the factory farming could decrease. That would be a step in the right direction, though using that as a stepping stone still grosses me out.
OK I've been away from the States for a quarter-century--Is "toaster strudel" your basic PopTart? My mother would seldom let us have those when we were kids...we thought they were great until we'd actually eaten a few! :P (GOD how you hate to admit your parents were right!!) ::)
Yep. Nasty.
It's an interesting theoretical dilemma. Realistically, none of us will see this happen in our lifetimes.
The way I understand it, the writer of the article envisions that you would take (buy) a few animal muscle cells, put it on a culture medium in your kitchen counter top machine and similarly to a yogurt maker in a few hours have a strip of meat. Then you'd add your own fats, flavorings, etc. like we do to tofu. Kinda of reminds me of the replicators on Star Trek - Next Generation, Deep Space Nine and Voyager (and the NG movies).
The argument that the cows, chickens, salmon wouldn't consent to it so it would be wrong is questionable. As stewards of God's Earth or for you atheists, by virtue of our being the most intelligent beings on the planet who interact with their environment the most effectively (sorry, whales, when you can open a jar of krill, I'll reconsider that), we make decisions for the good of animals all the time. I wish I could explain to my cats in a way they could understand about feline leukemia and get their consent for a vaccination, but I'm left taking them to the vet over their strenuous objections! Who knows, if a cow could consent to donating a few muscle cells to save hundreds, thousands, millions of her fellow cows, she would probably do it! Humans give their blood, kidneys, and even part of their livers to save other humans. Why wouldn't a cow with intelligence equal to a human and a way to communicate it, be any different?! Are we interested in saving animals from an agonizing life and a more horrific death or do we want to be better, holier, purer than omnivores!
For those of us, who are vegan because of the animals and who dream of a salmon fillet (me!) or a hamburger, it would be acceptable, the way he envisions it with no involvement with a monster corporation like Monstanto or Archer Daniel Midland. For those who are vegan to make having an eating disorder more concealable, it wouldn't be acceptable. For those who are allergic or hate the taste of meat, that will forever be a valid reason for not eating it. Just like being allergic or hating the taste of strawberries makes it unquestioningly OK not to eat them.
Whew, that's a long explanation of what I was thinking about all last night! :D
I wish I could explain to my cats in a way they could understand about feline leukemia and get their consent for a vaccination, but I'm left taking them to the vet over their strenuous objections!
;D If you ever do find a way, let me know. My boy is very indignant about trips to the vet.
while animals can't consent like people, i don't know if it is fair to say that since we make choices for animals (take to the vet, get shots, etc) are the same as using their cells to grow meat. i know my cats do not want to go to the vet, much like i don't like going to the doctor myself, but i'm not sure if they understand that going to the vet is in their best interests when they are sick. granted, i'm making that call for them, but i think animals would want to be healthy and enjoy their lives. using cells, however, is just using the animal--they aren't getting anything out of it. i reallly think it is comparable to the whole eggs/milk-- sure it's there and (outside of contemporary farming practices) doesn't "hurt" the animal, but do we really need to use them?
the idea of a meat growing machine is kinda cool, i have to admit. much like my beloved soymilk maker i imagine!
This is still all theoretical, but what they'd be getting out of it is their lives! The following argument is sickening but true so if you have a weak stomach don't read any further.
Using a cow as my example, a biopsy worth of cells versus having a bolt driven into her head at high speed or having it miss and going through the process of having her throat cut fully conscious or having the cutter miss and going through the process of having her legs cut off and skinned alive. Some cows at the slaughterhouse are so desperate to get away that they get their heads wedged under a gate and are then decapitated alive when its too much trouble to remove them any other way! Seems like a fair trade to me, a few cells versus a process that is almost unfathomable in its brutality and cruelty! My source for this rant is the book Slaughterhouse and the 6th chapter of Skinny Bitch which uses Slaughterhouse (don't remember the author's name right now but I've got the book at home) as its source!
The question remains: do we really care about the animals or are we just posturing to make ourselves look righteous and wonderful? I think we, as humans outraged by the treatment of "livestock" in factory farms and slaughterhouses, should support this reseach as well as continuing to try to convert as many omnivores to veganism as possible. Live in the present and work for the future. A future that will still be full of people who just "can't live witout having a steak". Develop the technology, help it become so widespread that there are no alternates, return thousands of acres of ranch and farmland back to wildlife and our great grandchildren will live hapily ever after!
a couple of my friends have brought up this experiment with me, asking what my standpoint is. morally i think i would be ok with it... except for the whole government mind control part, because i totally feel you guys on that.
but i know i would never be able to eat it, just because it's gross! as vegans we all think about our food a lot more than 'SADers' (i love this, and am using it forever!!!), and i know one of the reasons i spend so much time thinking about my food is that it's amazing. visualize these two things:
a 50 lb chunk of "chicken breast" being grown in a vat of liquid, against a wall lined with hundreds of said vats, in a dark a musty lab basement.
OR, a juicy ripe nectarine being plucked from a branch, too be enjoyed while sitting in the shade with someone you love...
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