The world is retarded
Posted by AshleyKimball on Jan 29, 2007 · Member since Nov 2006 · 536 posts
The title pretty much somes this thread up--the world is retarded.
what's the most retarded justification for hurting animals you've heard?
For me: "the bible says so"
Actual quote from the bible via my ex. methodist pastor:
GENESIS 1:29
"Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
does it talk about eating animals? NO!
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just agrued this with my father last night. He said if meat was really so bad and we shouldn't eat it then it would say so in the bible. I was like unreal...
My answer to him was the book was written years ago when breathing was actually a safe thing to do. Even if it stated that You should eat any thing that moves maybe back before cars and chemicals and pollutents it was ok(if you could kill an animal that is). But if everything happens for a reason could the reason we get sick from meat be because ITS WRONG sort of like drugs are bad.
Maybe when people give us a stupid statement like that we should ask them to prove or show us how eating living creatures has inproved any aspect of thier health. Maybe I am ignorant, but i can't recall a link between eggplant and heart attack or rice milk and diabetes and ummmmmm no no other diseases come to mind.
Yes, Ashley, as a Christian this makes me mad too. The prob is they don't understand Elizabethan English, which the King James Bible was written in. "Meat" in that context meant any sort of food. Corn and wheat and barley are mentioned as "meat for cattle"...hey? (True, they ate even a greater proportion of meat in their diet in Elisabeth's time than people do now. The mind boggles...but they also died a lot younger. I hate to think what their cholesterol levels were like.)
If the man is/was a pastor he should know fine and well that death didn't enter the world until after Gen 3 (the fall) so no way was Adam trotting around killing animals for food. There's no record of any killing until Abel sacrifices the lamb and then Cain kills him. And not because of animal rights. :D
But they only really speak of man eating meat after Noah-and-the-ark's time.
Sorry to rant but this really grinds my beans. You might remind him that Shakespeare sasy "Even Satan can cite scripture for his own purpose."
...Interesting to note the decrease in the lifespan of man from that time on too!
Ummmm, maybe these same people think that the world was created in 6 days, and is only 6000 years old (give or take a few years)!!!!! ;D :o ::)
I'll have to stay out of the religious debate, or I will end up posting something that may take me 2 or 3 straight days, and run 60 to 70 pages here. I'll just leave my little "blip" up above as my point of view on religion, and you can probably sum up my views on this topic pretty clearly. >:(
For an interesting read on the Bible (relating to all sorts of peaceful "love they neighbor" type preaching found in the good book)...try this
http://ffrf.org/timely/abcsbible.php (ABC'S of the bible)
Oh, sorry Ashley, not to miss the point (it started to change direction quickly I think),
: controlling certain animal populations. I wrote my opinions regarding the topic in a recent post....for those that haven't read it: http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=14086.0
Hi,
I just want to point out that the use of term "retarded" is quite inappropriate here. Maybe the "world is ridiculous" would be a little less offensive. Sorry, I am a psyc major and retarded is a reference point to IQ level and makes no sense and is used a negative word which is quite rude, no different than saying something is "gay."
I have read some papers that actually interpret the bible as encouraging us to NOT eat meat. It is all about how you interpret it. I suggest seeking out those sources and using them to counter the other side of this debate. Even if you do not convince them, which you probably won't because often people are very stubborn, you can at least nuetralize the situation by presenting the other side.
I also like refering to Einstein and other great minds who support vegetarianism.
Babypuppy, you're right...Applelover, too...interesting that whenever an OT prophet or whoever (such as Daniel) wanted to keep themselves purified they only ate vegetables, "pulses" (ie legumes) and water instead of the meat and wine and other foods that we know now aren't terribly good for one. And turned out healthier than the people who ate all the "special" foods.
I think my most heard justification for hunting is that if people didn't hunt the animals would over-populate and die of starvation and disease. ::)
But they only really speak of man eating meat after Noah-and-the-ark's time.
yabbit is correct - the reason they were permitted to eat meat AFTER the great fload was because there were no plants that survived therefore they had no choice but to eat the animals.
For people like that, I recommend using a different approach. Telling them that eating animals is wrong/evil isn't going to get through because they will only become defensive and tune you out. As far as religious arguments over it go, one can find justification for just about anything somewhere in the Bible...it's all about interpretation & cherry-picking the right passage, so arguing using an ancient religious text will do you little good to prove any point definitively. Science is always a much more effective reference for argument, because it is not AS subjective.
For my meat-eating family and friends, I've focused on the health benefits of eliminating or even just reducing the amount of meat & animal products that they eat. Everyone I've talked to has been extremely receptive to that approach, even if they aren't ready to become vegan, they aren't turned off by the discussion. They may eat less meat & eventually perhaps none at all. I don't think compassion is an all-or-nothing proposition. Most omnis aren't ready to make that big of a change or face the possibility that eating animals might be cruel & unnecessary; they will clutch to whatever flimsy reasons they can to support their actions & suppress any guilt.
::)
I just want to point out that the use of term "retarded" is quite inappropriate here. Maybe the "world is ridiculous" would be a little less offensive. Sorry, I am a psyc major and retarded is a reference point to IQ level and makes no sense and is used a negative word which is quite rude, no different than saying something is "gay."
"Retarded" meaning slow to learn -- is the most appropriate word she could have chosen.
The Bible isn't really about interpretation and the right verse, it's about taking the entirety of it and seeing how it all works together. Doing that, it's clear that at a particular time, animal sacrifices were required for a reason. When someone sinned, they had to sacrifice an animal to atone for it. The lesson in that would be to get a clearer understanding of the effects of your sin, how it hurts others so much more than yourself (could go on abit, but that should do). Then, Jesus made himself the FINAL sacrifice, through which we should be forgiven without having to cause any more harm to the earth. It is now not only no longer required, but a sin in itself to sacrifice animals, because the FINAL sacrifice has been made. From there, it wouldn't be necessarily wrong to eat animal flesh, but the methods can definately be argued with any true Christian. All of God's creation should be respected, as it was pointed out above, plants were designed for food, animals were created because they made God happy. Is the way in which meat is being produced honoring God's creation? Can you eat without conscience knowing what suffering God's creation has been enduring to get on your plate. New Testament scripture states that if you cannot eat in faith, to eat is sin. So the question is, can you, knowing what has been done to these animals that God made for His own pleasure, enjoy and eat of it, in faith, believing you are honoring God in it? That argument (a real and accurate one) has shut up quite a few people.
If the Bible (or any religious text) weren't subject to different interpretations, there wouldn't be nearly as many different religions in the world...
Religion is usually an extremely personal, deeply ingrained thing for people who are religiously affilliated. Therefore using religious texts, traditions, dogma, etc. to argue your point won't often work, especially if the person you are speaking to interprets their religion to support a view in opposition to the one you have.
Since I often see so called, men of god....pastors and such.....hunting here in GA (the paster of the biggest local babtist church (or should i say Talibangelical church) lives here in my upscale development....(I guess the donation plate has been good to him :P), going out hunting on weekends...Yeah....he's a real man of god ....donating his wealth to the poor...driving a brand new Lexus SUV (he's obviously a great steward to the environment as well). I guess they truly believe that all life is sacred...ALL LIFE!
Let's PLEASE leave religion out of here.....please?
Edit: Actually I just thought about it, and really need to add this:
If your religious beliefs in anyway helped you in your decision to become vegan, because you believe that all life has great value, then maybe I'm wrong in some of my views on religion. If it was religion that brought you to where you are today (being vegan,) then I guess I'll be the first to admit that for a handful, respecting ALL life is truly in your best interest. It's just not in the majority. All comments welcome....I did not mean to offend anyone by my statements.
Religion is too big to ignore, it's very powerful whatever it's form and however inaccurate or misaligned it's followers may be (remember the eleventh?). The biggest problem with Christianity is that too many use the name but do know even know what the actual beliefs are. Most, and I mean the GREATER majority of Christians are NOT Christians. To be a true Christian you have to believe, (not use as an excuse), to believe something, you have to know what it is,(not what some people have to say about it), to know what it is, you have to find out,(not rely on other misguideds) . . .when you find out, well, for one, you'll probablly end up here. Most people that call themselves Christians do not know what they are talking about. If all of them actually found out what the truth is, and stood up to follow what they are supposed to believe, there wouldn't be any factory farms left in America. Religion is too powerful to ignore, Dave. Usually for the worse, but it can be for the good, too.
i actually don't mind the use of "retarded" here. maybe not the most mature word use, but the word has already been misused to the point that you would never actually want to use it to refer to a person with actual learning disabilities. i think i would smack someone upside the head it they used it to label someone i knew with a disability. i think it's safe to say that this word has passed out of typical medical and pychological use and is now firmly in the realm of teen slang.
Since I often see so called, men of god....pastors and such.....hunting here in GA (the paster of the biggest local babtist church (or should i say Talibangelical church) lives here in my upscale development....(I guess the donation plate has been good to him :P), going out hunting on weekends...Yeah....he's a real man of god ....donating his wealth to the poor...driving a brand new Lexus SUV (he's obviously a great steward to the environment as well). I guess they truly believe that all life is sacred...ALL LIFE!
Let's PLEASE leave religion out of here.....please?
-I know exactly what you mean. i have always had positive feelings toward religion until i moved to Georgia - seeing these people really turns me off of it.
Another great reason to eat meat: "that's what the animals are here for"
And as far as the use of the word "retarded," it's formal definition is: "less advanced in physical, mental or social developement than is usual for one's age." I can't think of a more fitting word for a person using these arguments to justify animal eating. If you wish to connotate the word with handicapped people, that is your choice.
OK, to get somewhat back onto the original topic...
I've heard the "the cows and pigs would overrun the earth and starve" argument & the "if we didn't breed them for food, they wouldn't exist - so we have the right to do with them as we please" argument.
The most common dumb thing I hear is "but what do you eat?" or "you aren't eating enough protein."
Hey Rachlove2
Yes it is very different here in GA, is it not?! I have never seen more racism and bigotry anywhere else in the world....and trust me...I've been around the world :-X
If your religious beliefs in anyway helped you in your decision to become vegan, because you believe that all life has great value, then maybe I'm wrong in some of my views on religion. If it was religion that brought you to where you are today (being vegan,) then I guess I'll be the first to admit that for a handful, respecting ALL life is truly in your best interest. It's just not in the majority. All comments welcome....I did not mean to offend anyone by my statements.
I am one of those people :)
I have many reasons for being vegan, and my Christian faith has a lot to do with it. This is mostly because of my awe and gratitude for God's creation, and trying to love as much as possible.
Thank you for including these comments in your post. I was shying away from contributing to this thread until you said that.
Thanks Apstaats!
After really thinking about it, I realized that there actually may be many of you out here that are vegan because of your religious beliefs. Though I may not share them, if they (your beliefs) led you here.....then maybe both you and 7 (and many others), learned something that most that follow that same path do not.....that all life, from us humans,to the deer out in the woods, to those little ants ::) , deserve to live our lives out on this planet in equal balance with respect for one another. Watching my dog King kiss a cow, or a skunk :P shows me that life can be peaceful and good...for all of us....i know that animals kill animals to survive....i just don't believe in my heart that us humans were designed to hunt and kill. I know it's not in my own heart to see any suffering,...... of any kind.............
-dave
This thread has so far only referenced Christian thought and bible study. Several other religions do more to lead one to veganism - look at the Eastern religions of Hinduism and Buddhism, which openly encourage (and to the stricter practicers, necessitate) vegetarianism/veganism. We cannot judge a religion so much by what a lot of the followers do (Davedrum, for instance, your neighborhood pastor :P) BECAUSE the bible is so mutifaceted.
However it takes much of one's own spirituality to take Christianism and follow through to veganism. A coworker of mine does not eat "red" meat because of something she read in the bible. She continued to eat chicken, fish, dairy and eggs. Recently (I've only known her for about 4 months now) she said she's started to feel bad about chicken, so she has given up chicken within the past week and then within 2 days of that, she said she was thinking about it and realized it didn't make sense to stop eating chicken but continue to eat their eggs. She is now a lacto-vegetarian :) I'm very proud of her. Her faith led her in the right direction but I think a lot of the time, you have to look deeper within yourself.. not so much what society has beaten into you since you were old enough to understand.
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