ear cropping/tail docking dogs
Just wondering what your opinions are on ear cropping and tail docking for dogs.
I live in Australia, where both practices have been banned since 2004(?).
I fully support the ban on ear cropping, as it is purely cosmetic and quite painful for the dog (commonly done on dobermans, great danes, boxers...probably others).
However, agree with tail docking in some cases. Since the ban, many dogs who would traditionally be docked are breaking or splitting open their tails by hitting it on something. Possible outcomes include pain, infection, gangrene, cast and/or stitches, and sometimes the tail needs to be amputated anyway (which is a major operation for full-grown dogs). Certain breeds have more trouble than others depending on the strength and length of their tails, but I think at least the ones that commonly have issues should still be allowed to be docked (humanely of course, which I realize is not always the case).
And for anyone who thinks docking is wrong because it's "not natural", keep in mind that injuries mostly happen when the dog wags its tail too close to a table leg or other sharp-edged, man-made object.
Btw, dew claw removal is still legal and regularly practiced here, because dew claws are prone to get caught on things and ripped off. So I don't see how tail docking on dogs prone to tail injury is any different.
Ear and tail cropping was banned by the EEC in 2007. However many Spanish vets are "ignoring" the tail ban because having it done right in a sterile atmosphere is better than watching idiot dog owners wrap a rubber band around a pup's tail to do a "home dock" which leads to infections and often death. However no decent vet (not even in the city I live in where rules exist to be broken) has cropped ears since about 2000. As one I know put it, "Pierce your own ears, chop your nose off if you want to...but don't ask me to crop a dog's ears."
The only dogs I've ever seen with broken tails have been hit by cars or mistreated in some way, but that's just my personal experience.
I think the defense of tail docking because of splitting/other injuries is a little over dramatized. I've known many labs/lab mixes/pit bulls/other hyper dogs split their tails from wagging too hard (often referred to as "happy tail) and these are not breeds that traditionally have had their tails docked. If it's really a huge problem, then I guess those dogs should undergo surgery, but I think it's silly to continue to dock all puppies' tails "just in case" they might get happy tail and split their tail open. Very few dogs have this issue and the only ones I've seen with the problem have been confined to kennels/hospital crates (when I worked at a boarding kennel/vet office) because they were in a small space and were nervous.
As far as dew claw removal, my cats' claws get caught on things, too, but only when I haven't trimmed them in a while. If people kept up on their dogs' nail trimmings, it wouldn't be a problem.
I'm disgusted that these practices are still allowed in the U.S.--tail docking, ear cropping, declawing, dew claw removal, debarking...ugh. Makes me sick that not only is it legal but that so many vets have no ethical dilemma with doing so. What they need to do is go after the registry organizations (i.e. the AKC) and get them to change their "breed standards" because until those change, people will continue to dock/crop if they want to show/breed their dog or even if they just want it to "look like a Doberman (or insert other mutilated breed here)".
Another reason I've seen to be "pro docking" is when dogs are around large hoofed animals....yes, a dog will (hopefully) learn after the first time to not sit/lay so close to a cow/horse....but often times the tail gets so mangled you have to dock it anyways....
I'm disgusted that these practices are still allowed in the U.S.--tail docking, ear cropping, declawing, dew claw removal, debarking...ugh. Makes me sick that not only is it legal but that so many vets have no ethical dilemma with doing so. What they need to do is go after the registry organizations (i.e. the AKC) and get them to change their "breed standards" because until those change, people will continue to dock/crop if they want to show/breed their dog or even if they just want it to "look like a Doberman (or insert other mutilated breed here)".
I had never heard of debarking. That's terrible. If you don't want a dog barking, get a calm dog...or no dog.
If tail injuries are actually overhyped I'd probably change my opinion on docking. I've heard some pretty bad stories about them, but I don't actually know the statistics.
I've been thinking about it because I got a puppy 3 weeks ago and he's a breed that would normally have 1/3 of their tail docked because the end is not as strong. You can see when he points, his tail sticks straight out but the last 1/3 of it flops over. He also still has his dew claws, and I'll just keep them trimmed and hope for the best.
I agree that America needs to update the rules (breed standards will have to change accordingly). I grew up there, I can remember all my friends asking if my cat was declawed yet when I was 8 years old (as if it was the normal thing to do). None of my cats have been declawed, and yeah, some of the furniture is a little worse off, but oh well. If you're that worried about the furniture, get a goldfish.
And if barking bothers you, get a hamster.
I'm disgusted that these practices are still allowed in the U.S.--tail docking, ear cropping, declawing, dew claw removal, debarking...ugh. Makes me sick that not only is it legal but that so many vets have no ethical dilemma with doing so. What they need to do is go after the registry organizations (i.e. the AKC) and get them to change their "breed standards" because until those change, people will continue to dock/crop if they want to show/breed their dog or even if they just want it to "look like a Doberman (or insert other mutilated breed here)".
I had never heard of debarking. That's terrible. If you don't want a dog barking, get a calm dog...or no dog.
Yeah, it's like saying, "I'd love a baby, but I don't want to deal with changing diapers!" Sorry. Comes with the package.
I'm completely against both ear croping and tail docking. It's purely for cosmetic purposes and by whatever means, if they weren't supposed to have bigger ears or tails, they wouldn't have been born with them.
To freely quote Black Beauty, people who want to justify docking dogs and horses should try clipping their children's ears and noses if they want them to look "perky" and "sharp."
Though in these days of peircing, imbedding and etc....who knows what's up next in the name of fashion. I shudder to think.
My dogs ( Pit Bulls) are 15 and 16 years old. They have there ears , tails and claws. When a dogs ears are cropped they tend to stay a little cleaner but since I use Q tips on them I think all that is left would be cosmetic crualty.
And furthermore ( little off topic) I think supporting breeding some dogs like Bulldogs is crual. They have problems for life and if someone must have one get an Old English Bulldogge. They give birth natrally and don`t get facial roll infections.
As a kid, my family had a miniature schnauzer that had her tail docked & ears cropped & I never forgot it. I was furious with my parents & I felt awful for the dog (her name was Anna Freud :-D ) & swore that when I grew up, I would never mutilate any animal that came into my life. So when DH brought home a gorgeous Boxer pup, it turned into a HUGE debate.....errrr, argument.
I am happy to say that Stu still has his beautiful floppy ears, his verrryy long tail & dew claws. The only part we had removed were his testicles. ;)b
Floppy ears are so much cuter anyway. :)
I thought the original reason for cropping ears was so they're less likely to be bitten off during a fight. Most breeds that usually have cropped ears were used for guarding or hunting, or for dogfighting as a sport. Not that that's any justification. But for a dog as a pet, there's really no reason to have ears cropped, other than cosmetic.
Plenty of breeds have naturally perky ears too....
Yesterday we were out and about and we saw a gorgeous black Great Dane bitch with her ears and tail intact! They look so much more majestic with all their pieces and parts in place. DH didn't recognise the breed, having only seen cropped ones, and told me to "check out the huge Labrador!" It would have been ;D if it weren't for the reason he didn't recognise it.
And if barking bothers you, get a hamster.
But then the hamster wheel will turn all night, and you'll have to de-leg the hamster so its quiet. T_T
No people don't really do that don't let my snark scare you!! To me its the same retarded logic though. The only surgery that should be required is spaying/neutering pets as to control the population. I was at my husband's work talking to a girl that works sales there about dogs, and she was saying she wanted to "Let her dog have 1-2 litters just so it can be a mommy." I asked her, "And what are you gonna do with the puppies?" "I dunno, take them to the SPCA if no one wants them." Don't worry, I assured her of her immaturity and lack of responsibility and the whys of spaying/neutering and just what happens to unadopted pups.
What I don't understand is, if the American Kennel Club really loves dogs, why don't they ban docking and cropping and set an example for dog owners everywhere??
Excellent point, WLA!! I think someone should start a letter-writing campaign to ask the AKC just that very question! ;)b ;)b
Yesterday we were out and about and we saw a gorgeous black Great Dane bitch with her ears and tail intact! They look so much more majestic with all their pieces and parts in place. DH didn't recognise the breed, having only seen cropped ones, and told me to "check out the huge Labrador!" It would have been ;D if it weren't for the reason he didn't recognise it.
I didn't know Great Danes had their tails docked...I thought it was just their ears. ??? They look so much better with natural ears. Great Danes are my favorite. I'd get one for sure if I had enough space for it (and the money for all that dog food!).
To me its the same retarded logic though.
??? :'(
Yesterday we were out and about and we saw a gorgeous black Great Dane bitch with her ears and tail intact! They look so much more majestic with all their pieces and parts in place. DH didn't recognise the breed, having only seen cropped ones, and told me to "check out the huge Labrador!" It would have been ;D if it weren't for the reason he didn't recognise it.
I didn't know Great Danes had their tails docked...I thought it was just their ears. ??? They look so much better with natural ears. Great Danes are my favorite. I'd get one for sure if I had enough space for it (and the money for all that dog food!).
For a lot of people, the excuse of tail docking is because the dogs are so big that "their tails are in the way." Because supposedly that big tail will knock things off tables etc. if they wag.
But then IMHO keeping a Dane or a Lab or any large dog in our tiny apartments is cruel in the first place, and the reason I don't have a dog. I like large dogs, but I wouldn't consider trying to keep one in our tiny 3rd floor apartment in a city where parks are rare and other people's undisciplined (ie prone to fight) dogs are legion.
I'm disgusted that these practices are still allowed in the U.S.--tail docking, ear cropping, declawing, dew claw removal, debarking...ugh. Makes me sick that not only is it legal but that so many vets have no ethical dilemma with doing so. What they need to do is go after the registry organizations (i.e. the AKC) and get them to change their "breed standards" because until those change, people will continue to dock/crop if they want to show/breed their dog or even if they just want it to "look like a Doberman (or insert other mutilated breed here)".
I had never heard of debarking. That's terrible. If you don't want a dog barking, get a calm dog...or no dog.
me neither! i just had to google it! how horrid!
man, i cannot believe people actually do that.
when they have babies, do they have them "de-cried" so that they won't cry all of the time?
me neither! i just had to google it! how horrid!
man, i cannot believe people actually do that.
when they have babies, do they have them "de-cried" so that they won't cry all of the time?
-The VERY reason I don't have babies!!
I own a breed that is traditionally a docked breed- rottweilers. My next puppy will not be docked. In fact there are some large groups of rottweiler owners who are involved in the german and french ringsports who are NOT docking their rottweilers.
The issue with that lies in many of the people who show/breed is that the AKC/UKC/CKC etc standard will state "docked" "cropped" etc - many of these Judges are old school and will not place dogs who aren't "in standard" even tho many of these standards have been changed to read (in the case of the rottweiler-not sure of the rest) that the tail is acceptable and goes on to describe how the tail should be properly carried. You also have the people who just prefer the look of docked.
I recently ran into someone with a very lovely tailed rottweiler bitch who wasn't placed and in fact the judge excused her from the ring in a canadian show because he said tailed wasn't allowed (this isn't true). I've also seen several very nice dogs get looked over due to tails.
This is why docking/cropping continues to go on for the most part. Until the kennel clubs start changing their standards and educating their judges it's a practice that will continue.
While I don't necessarily agree with cropping or docking-right now it's a breeder's choice to do so. Docking tails isn't quite as severe as ear cropping. It's traditionally done at no more than 5 days old before the nerve endings are developed in the tails. I know several breeders who have watched it done and they feel that it's painless, the puppies don't even cry. I personally have never witnessed it so I cannot give my own personal opinion. I really know nothing of ear cropping as i'm not involved in a cropped breed.
Docking does have it's usefulness for certain working breeds-if your working them. I believe that some of the field hunting dogs i.e. German Shorthaired Pointers have docked tails because they can get easily caught in the brush etc etc-stuff like that- Rottweilers were originally docked because they were carting dogs-they pulled meat carts for the butchers in the town of Rottweil, Germany (they also were responsible for carrying the money around their necks).
As far as dew claw removal-All of my dogs have their dew claws-I've never had one rip them which is what the "myth" of dew claw removal is for. I'm not sure what the real purpose of it is, maybe it is because too many dogs ripped them. Some dogs actually are born without, some are born with double.
Declawing is just cruel. One of the cats I adopted out from my wild litter (we had a momma move in and have a litter of kits who she allowed me to handle, and momma and 4 of the kits are now spayed and permanent residents), the owner got him declawed. I was FURIOUS! I told him you do know that they actually cut the first finger joint off?????? He had NO IDEA. He was pretty mortified after I told him how they declaw-at that point the damage was done.
I don't agree with debarking either. I'm not exactly sure of the procedure and how cruel it is-but I don't see a use for it. If you dont like barking, dont have a dog, or find a breed that isn't barky (although rottweilers are not necessarily barky, ones that are raised with coonhound mixes and labrador mixes will learn how to howl and bark quite incessantly-UGH! :-D )
As a besides-PETA supports a bill that would make me essentially a criminal because i own a docked dog. I would have to prove that a vet did the dock-my dog is a rescue from NJ. If I can't prove a vet did the docking, my dog can be taken away from me and destroyed- . PETA is a known supporter of Breed Specific Legislation-and seeing as how most cropped/docked dogs are on their "dangerous dog" list-I can see where this might be going. Oh look-Majicka has a rottweiler lets go seize him and destroy him. My ROTTWEILER is an freaking obedience title holder! I have spent 4 years training my rottweiler so that he could be an ambassador for the breed!!
Also, Any dog caught in PA under this proposed law that is docked or cropped-even travelling through that dog can be taken from the owner and destroyed. Rescues and shelters would have to literally destroy thousands of dogs it takes in a year because they couldn't prove that they were docked/cropped by a vet.
cute huh? This just burns my ass. Yknow what-Im all for making sure animals are safe, and making sure that they are not abused and welfare for animals and all that crap-but there's a point and time when it's just completely overboard. I refuse to label myself as an animal rights activist-it has a dirty dirty connotation to it in my dog world. I swear PETA and HSUS's ultimate goal is to eliminate pet ownership completely-they are supporting these laws that make it impossible for people to own dogs.
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