proud owner of a new puppy from a breeder
how do i tell them that i'm disappointed, that i think its horrible that breeders exist and that i'm against buying animals. all the while they're saying "OMG isnt he sooo cute? dont you just love him? isnt he the best??" i told her that she should take her puppy to the vet soon to make sure he isn't sick and doesn't have hip displacia, since its so common with breeders and especially labs. i then went on to talk about how my boyfriend and i are looking into rescuing animals because there are so many discarded pets, i was going to go onto talking about the humane society and adoption, but she said 'i have to go play with my puppy!!' and left. i don't want to rain on her parade, but everyone needs to learn that breeders should not get paid for doing what they do.
thoughts? how would you handle it?
ha i just realized this title makes it seem like i'm the proud owner. ohwell. i hope ya'll dont think im a horrible pet owner or something. pet owner... those words just sound so bad together. animal caretaker, thats what i would call myself if i had any animals to take care of.
Don't you mean "companion human"? ;)
I see your point (I would never pay money for a dog, much less a "pure" (over)bred), but I do understand your friend thought you were just trying to take the gilt off her gingerbread. There's ways and times.
I'll throw a curve in this. I think there is a need for good breeders. We have beautiful breeds of dogs and cats and I would hate to see them die out.
I have had the pleasure of sharing my life with a total of 6 dogs.
My first dog, $10.00. I got Mickey when I was four. In a cardboard box in a country store. Pup's from a farmers dog. Had him until I was 21.
Nugget my second dog was a purebred Maltese. The sweetest thing in the world. Brought to the vet's I worked for to be put to sleep. Convinced owners I should have him. He was 3 or 4 when I got him.
Then I bought Willie, an Affenpinscher from a breeder to keep Nugget young in his later years. Yes, I had seen Affenpinschers at a dog show, read up on them and finally bought on. I did take the little reject one though. One of his testicles didn't fall.
After Nugget passed away, I bought Teddy, another Maltese from a Pet Shop. He had had a fever as a pup and lost his hair. I know the owners of the pet shop very well and they do not buy from puppy mills.
While Willie and Teddy were still with me but very old, 15 and 17, I rescued my street dog Isabela and brought her home from Mexico.
Now of course, Cali...my rescue dog from Greece.
I personally would feel guilty buying a dog from a breeder right now but I would also hate to see the breeds die out.
My friends bought a Standard poodle from a breeder because of allergies. They so loved Isabela and my previous dogs that they got their second Standard Poodle from a rescue group.
I do believe their is a need for 'GOOD' breeders. I also believe in educating people to the great need of rescuing a pet.
I honestly believe they both have it's place.
I am not pleased about the designer dogs people are creating and then charging a fortune for them.
In the parrot world, they try to make people understand that they shouldn't mix species. To keep the line of the parrot pure.
Dog and cats of course are dogs and cats. Mixed breeds generally have less health problems and are some of the best dogs and cats.
Yet, I will never regret having Willie from the breeder, Nugget from the vets, and Teddy from the pet store. Of course in some way they were all rejects so they were sort of rescues.
Willie cost less because he had the testicle problem, Nugget was free and Teddy was dirt cheap because no one would have bought him looking the way he did.
Teddy's nickname BTW was Teddy, the dog from h*ll. Who would have thought Cali would make Teddy seem like a saint! ;D ;D ;D
I bought from a "breeder" as opposed to a "puppy mill." This gal has poodles with papers and she breeds them, but I know they are her pets too. She has 2 breeding pairs, not exactly an operation of the bad sort. It is not defensible, what I did, but we have had older pets and we have gotten young, baby animals as pets. Every older animal I have had has been a difficult experience...a dog who would NOT be housebroken and I tried it all...a male cat who had been fixed but still managed to spray all the walls, and ate until he made barf piles in the corners on a several time a day basis...and older rabbit who bit whenever we tried to feed it or water it and an older parrot who could not really be handled much and I was told he bite though he never offered to bite me.
We had a cat gotten as a kitten from a friend. She was a lovely animal, but got loose and didn't find her way home. A handfed baby parrot who insists on being handled after 3.5 yrs. A baby bunny who is gentle and sweet, very handleable and now this puppy who was gotten at 8 weeks old. I got her house broken in just under 3 weeks and she minds me like the kids do. There has been zero chewing on things she finds, she sticks to her toys. She was spayed this week because that is the right thing to do.
On the other hand, I had to go and play midwife to a dog last weekend, a Dachsund who was less than a year old and had been allowed to breed with a male who was a Dachsund mix, so the puppies were too large for her to birth and she lost 3 of her 5 puppies and we are talking a very very tiny dog here. Completely irresponsible and the owner had no idea when her puppies were due and slept through most of this dog's agony. I have no patience for that!
There are those who know a lot more about animals and dogs in particular then I do. I don't have the time or patience to rehab the psyche of an abused dog. I know this because I have tried. Thankfully there are people who have the time and the patience. In choosing the dog I did, I took into consideration the size of my yard and my house, the fact that all of us are allergic to pet hair and I could not stand the mess of a shedding breed, nor the activity level of a larger dog. With a family, and as a single parent, I don't have the time or energy to clean up after myself properly, let alone a dog on top of the birds, the rabbit and the kids, so I had to have something that I could house train in short order. I am afraid I thought more of my family's needs than of the needs of the pet, that is to say, I made a dog choice that was right for the family, instead of trying to bend the family around a poor dog choice on my part.
In these months, she has become a very important part of the family and we could hardly stand for her to be out of the house to be fixed. She checks on everything hourly, tends to those who are feeling low rather promptly and always chooses the loneliest of companions for her attention. She added to the love and affection of this home and didn't disrupt it one bit. In my own defense, that is what needed to happen.
I have friend who added a third dog to her home. She is now 9 months old and they have not fixed her as yet, a mistake. She poos all over the house when no one is looking, has stomach problems anyway and I could go on, but I won't. She is a disruption when we visit too and has to be told repeatedly to get down, to sit, to be quiet, to go out...Sandee always behaves and when she steps out of line, I just say her name sternly and she stops then comes and sits beside me and watches me carefully. Sandee is in for a well loved, treasured and spoiled life, not for any sort of abuse or having to be yelled at ever. That is how I wanted it and that is why I did something that others here would think was bad.
As much as it would be nice if all the bad breeders went out of business, you're not going to save any animals by insisting that they not be purchased and adopted. Unadopted animals from a breeder will end up euthanized just the same as dogs picked up off the street if no one gives them a home and the breeder decides to dump them when they're not puppies anymore or if the breeder decides they don't want to keep them as breeding stock. Why do stray dogs deserve to live more than pure breeds? I'd apologize to my friend if she thought I was being unkind and thank her for giving a dog a good home!
As much as it would be nice if all the bad breeders went out of business, you're not going to save any animals by insisting that they not be purchased and adopted. Unadopted animals from a breeder will end up euthanized just the same as dogs picked up off the street if no one gives them a home and the breeder decides to dump them when they're not puppies anymore or if the breeder decides they don't want to keep them as breeding stock. Why do stray dogs deserve to live more than pure breeds? I'd apologize to my friend if she thought I was being unkind and thank her for giving a dog a good home!
Hmm...I think I have to disagree. I think this has a parallel to not eating animal products: just how you say that you're not going to save any animals by insisting that they not be purchased, you could make the same argument against veganism. Just because I give up animal products doesn't mean that there will be less animal products produced, but I don't care to support that sort of thing. Same with breeders--I would NEVER buy from a breeder ('good' or 'bad') because I don't care to support that sort of thing.
Way too many shelter animals without good homes, and adopting from a breeder shows the breeder that they can make money off of their companion animals, which is just wrong. I've heard people say they breed their animals to "make their money back" for what they paid for the animal--if you need to "make your money back", then why even get a companion animal?
5000 dogs get "exterminated" each and every day in the USA (sorry don't know the number of cats)....
Adopt one....and it's still 4999...a better number then 5000
Buy one from a breeder/puppy mill/pet store....the number is still 5000
Every single one counts....
A BIG part of me being vegan is believing that it is ALWAYS better to adopt and rescue while thousands of animals sentenced to prison for a crime they did not commit await their death sentences to be carried out.....
Since returning from rehearsals in Nashville..... here a sit and watch and wait as my beautiful Kara is very ill and breaths some of her last breaths on this earth.....Am I pissed off?...yeah I am....But that's life....
One thing I do know....I am so glad my ex-wife and I got a call one morning....someone at the Boca Raton Fl. shelter called us up crying and begged us to come rescue Kara and her sister Sheeba.....that was their last day...... they literally had only hours left before they too were to be "exterminated" from this world......We had no plans on rescuing any dogs that day, but we did....I'm SO glad we did. I have learned so much from Kara...as I have from all of the dogs I have rescued and saved....I wish there was more I could do for her right now.....all the dogs are mellow and know something is up.....Her sister Sheeba lies at her side next to her crate/dog bed and keeps guard over her 24/7......I do not know how Sheeba will take to a world without her sister and best friend Kara.....time will tell.....time winds down......
The day I saved Sheeba and Kara.....somebody else bought 2 dogs......sorry they missed out...their loss was my gain.....
5000 dogs get "exterminated" each and every day in the USA (sorry don't know the number of cats)....
Adopt one....and it's still 4999...a better number then 5000
Buy one from a breeder/puppy mill/pet store....the number is still 5000
Every single one counts....
A BIG part of me being vegan is believing that it is ALWAYS better to adopt and rescue while thousands of animals sentenced to prison for a crime they did not commit await their death sentences to be carried out.....
Since returning from rehearsals in Nashville..... here a sit and watch and wait as my beautiful Kara is very ill and breaths some of her last breaths on this earth.....Am I pissed off?...yeah I am....But that's life....
One thing I do know....I am so glad my ex-wife and I got a call one morning....someone at the Boca Raton Fl. shelter called us up crying and begged us to come rescue Kara and her sister Sheeba.....that was their last day...... they literally had only hours left before they too were to be "exterminated" from this world......We had no plans on rescuing any dogs that day, but we did....I'm SO glad we did. I have learned so much from Kara...as I have from all of the dogs I have rescued and saved....I wish there was more I could do for her right now.....all the dogs are mellow and know something is up.....Her sister Sheeba lies at her side next to her crate/dog bed and keeps guard over her 24/7......I do not know how Sheeba will take to a world without her sister and best friend Kara.....time will tell.....time winds down......
The day I saved Sheeba and Kara.....somebody else bought 2 dogs......sorry they missed out...their loss was my gain.....
I'm sorry, Dave. That must be so difficult.
Dave, I'm so sorry about Kara :'( How lucky you both were to have each other. Know that I'll be thinking of you.
Dave, that is so sad :'( Kara is a beautiful dog. I am so sorry.
Sending love out to precious Kara... Her love will continue on for you too, Dave, in her afterlife.
"Yet, I will never regret having Willie from the breeder, Nugget from the vets, and Teddy from the pet store. Of course in some way they were all rejects so they were sort of rescues."
dogs like yours and kara are lucky that someone was there to rescue them when they needed it the most! thats why im so adament about people going out and looking for the dog that is about to go under because of overcrowding and low budgets. they deserve a great life and by adopting those animals, you are not only supporting that dog, but the other dogs that now have a pen to live in until they are adopted and the wonderful agencies that house them.
i just keep thinking of the film 'earthlings' where they look at the 5 ways we use animals, 4 of the reasons show the obviously negative uses of animals, eating, testing, entertainment and clothing. the last use was companionship. but it wasn't totally against having a companion animal, it was just asking 'can we be humane to animals and keep them as companions?" it focused a lot on neglect, abuse, and the extermination of millions of animals each year because of being discarded. and ever since then, i think... should we have companion animals? i really don't know the answer, but i do know that its certainly not going in a direction i would like it to go in within the general public.
have any of you seen earthlings? i have to admit, most of the vegan propaghanda like the peta videos dont really move me that much, other than my stomach, because i've seen these things and understand why i'm vegan, but earthlings added so much more depth to my lifestyle. i think most vegans could learn something new from that film. especially with the companion animal section. i really never had thought about that problem before.... i don't think i even realized that it was much of a problem!
As much as it would be nice if all the bad breeders went out of business, you're not going to save any animals by insisting that they not be purchased and adopted. Unadopted animals from a breeder will end up euthanized just the same as dogs picked up off the street if no one gives them a home and the breeder decides to dump them when they're not puppies anymore or if the breeder decides they don't want to keep them as breeding stock. Why do stray dogs deserve to live more than pure breeds? I'd apologize to my friend if she thought I was being unkind and thank her for giving a dog a good home!
Hi TinTexas,
Where you stated: "Why do stray dogs deserve to live more than pure breeds?"
That is a big misconception about strays.....If you look at my gallery you can see how many of the rescues or "strays" I have are and were purebreeds. That means somebody DID breed them and they ended up on the street or in a Shelter. If everyone stopped buying dogs and cats...breeders would just have no choice but to go out of business. It SHOULD be illegal to buy animals...period. I am one to believe that animals should have never been bred for ANY purpose....food, plowing fields, and or our entertainment/companions. It's too late for that, so I do my part to care for those that can no longer care for themselves or make it on their own.
I'm also tired of those that come up with excuses as to why they have to "buy" their dog from a breeder...too young, too old, not house trained, etc. Sheeba and Kara's tag from the shelter said that they were to be outside dogs and were not toilet trained.....well guess what...they have NEVER chewed anything in my homes, nor have they ever made in any of my homes (that goes for ALL of my dogs...). If one wants a puppy (though puppies often take more work to train then an adult), of any breed there are breed specific rescue groups listed in every state. They have puppies all the way up to senior dogs. With that being the case....and someone feels a NEED to have a specific breed due to allergies, size, temperament.....why not get one from one of the rescue groups? They can never justify to me the purchase of a dog. Give me a state, and I'll google a breed specific rescue group (or groups) for that breed in seconds. Not directing this at anyone....I'm just tired of hearing excuses from people regarding why they bought a dog....from family members to friends, to those I run into at the vets, or when buying pet food....etc. I guess I'm getting tired of repeating myself to people and hearing their same excuses time after time. People ALWAYS ask me where I "bought" Star, King or Sable...all full German Shepherds. When I tell most people of their situations....many seem to think they are damaged goods. That's like blaming an adopted child for the misfortunes of his/her birth parents. Just as there is nothing wrong with an adopted child, there in nothing wrong with an adopted pet. My dogs are my babies. They are smart, loyal (probably more so then a bought dog...trust me they DO know when they are rescued), obedient, funny, playful, and cuddly, house trained, good listeners, and great friends. Sorry for the long rant......I'm pretty "militant" regarding breeders and breeding of dogs. I've spent too much time, money and effort saving them and often feel as if I have not made a dent in the stray population as more breeders breed more dogs every day....
*Update*
My ex-wife was able to get Kara to eat a little bit of solid food last night and drink a small amount of chicken broth (she had refused to take food all day). She is still trying to fight off whatever it is that is beating her down (actually several things at once). This has been a roller coaster ride of ups and downs. All I want is for her to be at peace when or if she's ever ready to give up...for right now as of this morning she does not seem to want to "let go" just yet.....I'll keep you posted.....thanks for all the kind words.
-dave
Dave, I'm glad Kara seems to want to hold on a little longer but it does put you and your ex on a miserable roller coaster ride. Just hoping for the "right" outcome (best for Kara, best for you).
Good vibes coming Kara's way...I know what they've done for Cali and my Sweetheart, so c'mon Vegwebbers!! Vibe on Kara!!! :-*
I haven't read this whole thread, but I'd like to point one thing out: if it weren't for reputable, ethical breeders we would never have dogs in search and rescue, we would never have therapy dogs, we would never have dogs that assist disabled humans.
I have a GSD. He is a working dog, coming from a long line of Schutzhund champions. I paid $1500 for him. Yes, that's right = $1500 from a very, ethical and very reputable breeder.
Do you know what the breeder's profit was on the sale of all the puppies? $0.00. Yes, really. Good breeders, ethical breeders, responsible breeders NEVER make money off of the sale of their pups. They make money from showing, from competitions, etc. But, never from the sale of puppies. Simply because they put WAY too much money into each and every puppy to ever break even. Often, they lose money.
Backyard breeders, puppy mills, etc., - I agree, they need to be stopped. These are the people who exploit animals. These are the people who contribute to overpopulation. And these are the only people who actually make money off of the sale of pups.
I signed a contract in order to purchase my dog. In that contract (and this is STANDARD to every single good breeder) it states that if I'm ever in a position where I can't take care of my dog any longer, I will call the breeder. The breeder will then come, and take the dog back - no questions asked. Dogs from good breeders, never wind up in the streets or in shelters. My dog has a microchip in him - and the address for the microchip is the breeder's address, not mine. If I'm ever so irressponsible as to lose my dog - the breeder will get him back.
Further, the breeder researched me thoroughly before agreeing to sell me a puppy. The breeder I went to does, maybe, one litter every other year - NOT from the same bitch. I had to jump through hoops - from vet recommendations to a home visit before the breeder agreed to sell me a GSD.
I also had to show why I was qualified to handle a working breed, that I knew how and where to train, etc. I do NOT have breeding rights on this dog. I agreed, by contract, that I would never, ever breed him. Schutzhund is a fairly small circle of dog breeders ... so my breeder will KNOW if I break my contract. At which point, I will lose all rights to my dog.
So, while I am completely against bad breeding ... I just have to point out that, for some things, i.e. therapy, search and rescue, protection, herding, as aids to the disabled, etc., we NEED good, ethical breeders.
Not all dogs can be trained for the above. They must have a certain temperment, a certain drive, a certain stability.
Now, of course, we can argue the idea that no pet is ethical, and dogs shouldn't be "forced" to work. But ... if any of you have ever seen a real working dog, doing Schutzhund or search and rescue ... that dog is loving it. When I go out into the field with my GSD - I can, literally, see the joy in his eyes. My dog thrives on the mental challenges of work, and he wouldn't be fulfilled as simply a companion animal.
Whoops, sorry didn't mean to write a book. ;D
i did think about that after reading diver di's first post about trying to find good breeders and i am really still torn on the subject of using dogs for people with disabilities and search and rescue. i still have this gut feeling that we shouldn't be using animals, but maybe i should consider exceptions.
thanks for telling your story! i have never heard of a breeder like yours.
CrunchyCapitilist, your post made me think of two of our dogs. Boris and Horace. These dogs were not bought, we don't know what breed they are exactly. But they were both probably a cross between a lab and a hunterway. Boris was with us when all the children were young. He used to herd us. I know it's not herding sheep or cattle, but he could herd. Boris used to go to schools and teach the kids to treat animals fairly and not be afraid of them. He used to go to old folks homes and bring smiles to the faces of the people he visited. Therapy, you could say. Many times Boris 'search and rescued' us kids. Again, not the same thing, but he could seek out anything and bring it back to you; an object, an animal, a child. Both Boris and now Horace have calm, even tempers. They are firm but gentle when protecting someone they love from danger. We do not need ethical breeders, I personally don't believe ethical breeders exist. If they were ethical, they would rescue animals, not breed them.
You do not need a breeder to create wonderful animals. You need a loving, caring, informed and capable owner/carer to nurture the inherent wonderfulness (not a real word, I know) in the animal.
I think Dave is no less than a hero for what he does. And when the day comes where I too am in the position where I can help the abandoned animals of this world, I will step up to the plate and do all I can for them. (I'm no good to a dog in my tiny apartment, flat broke and studying).
. I have a GSD. He is a working dog, coming from a long line of Schutzhund champions. I paid $1500 for him. Yes, that's right = $1500 from a very, ethical and very reputable breeder.
Crunchy.....
I can understand the use of dogs for rescue and for therapy etc. Some of the dogs I have rescued and adopted out are now therapy dogs. I charged nothing to the people that adopted them for me. One was Iris...she had her eye kicked out by a bunch of local teens while they beat her sister with a bat. She still loves and trusts people after all that happened. The couple that adopted her enrolled her in a therapy course and she now does pet therapy at local hospitals around Atlanta. Obviously police and military dogs need to be highly trained. Though I do believe working with a puppy from any "stock" at a young age would have just as good as results as one from a breeder.....It is the breeders themselves and their effective means of marketing that have put the word out that you must buy one of their dogs. in my eyes...these breeders are as bad as those that believe that white people are better then black people (which we all know is FAR from the truth). Their dogs are no smarter, faster, or stronger.....they just TELL you they are.
You mention that you paid $1500 for your dog.....what kind of rescue does your champion do? I have 5 GSD's that I rescued or found (part of my 13 dogs). They are all smart, intelligent,loyal and faithful.....I have yet to meet a "marketed" dog that is smarter or more intelligent then my Star. I rescued him as a 9 week old puppy. He was found in a crack dealers closet during a drug bust in Florida...his pic can be seen in my gallery. He easily could have been a rescue dog, a police dog, or a military dog. I prefer that he stays like he has.....my buddy. One that would give his life for me ....as I would for him. There's a bond that develops with a rescue dog that I never see in "purchased" dogs.....
I, and all the rescue groups I work with to place dogs, also have an application and interview process. Nobody gets a dog unless we agree they will give it a great home. It has to be a perfect match for both the dog and the new parents/family. It is much much more about me interviewing the new parents. I've turned down many many people that have wanted to adopt. Those that say they would chain a dog up, or let it live outside...or that the dog will be alone 18 hours a day...etc. They can also return it at any time, for any reason, no questions asked. I have gone back to peoples home personally and "taken" them back when I found out I was lied to and they refused to give the dog (s) back. (Example was a pastor who said the dog would live inside and when his wife was called a few days later to see how the dog was doing...she told us that the dog lives outside.....meaning he lied on his application...figures it was a pastor right?!).......
Sorry about reading your post and still being pissed off today.....if you wanna know why....read the rest of the thread you skipped over.........go read about one of my GSD's Kara...or goto my profile pics and read about Star, King, Sable, and Sheeba as well.......
-dave
One was Iris...she had her eye kicked out by a bunch of local teens while they beat her sister with a bat. She still loves and trusts people after all that happened.
What an amazing girl. I can't say that I still love and trust people after what I've been through, and nobody has ever put me through anything like that. But honestly. What the F&** is WRONG with those kids?!? That's just f#&^ing sick.
Dave, you are amazing for doing what you do. Can I admit a bit of a crush?
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