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Arizona Immigration Law..Love it or Hate it?

Well, as you all probably know, the immigration law passed in Arizona earlier this year has caused controversy all over the country. I am wondering what you all think about the law.

Being a first generation American whose family struggled to come to America, I was not a big fan of the law but I came to change my mind.

I read the law myself and realized that there is nothing in it that goes against the federal law. I understand that the law can easily be abused, promoting racism and stereo typing; however, any law can be abused and we can not let that fear stop us from creating and enforcing laws.

Agreed. I am completely against this and any law that encourages racial profiling.

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Ok, I haven't read the law specifically but I don't see how it's at all necessary. It seems only to stem out of fear and that fear is completely unfounded. People don't seem to realize how integral immigrants are to our society. Furthermore, it's totally unfair that we stole this land from the people who lived here originally and now we're trying to keep others out. Ugh.

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it's totally unfair that we stole this land from the people who lived here originally and now we're trying to keep others out.

Spain stole Mexico.  It's a wash.

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Ok, I haven't read the law specifically but I don't see how it's at all necessary. It seems only to stem out of fear and that fear is completely unfounded. People don't seem to realize how integral immigrants are to our society. Furthermore, it's totally unfair that we stole this land from the people who lived here originally and now we're trying to keep others out. Ugh.

Yes, I agree completely that immigrants enrich American culture and that this land was unethically taken from the Native Americans. I do, however, believe that the problems near the Mexican boarder are simply out of control. Most Americans do not realize just how bad the issue is. Women are often raped and/or even kidnapped and taken across the boarder by illegals. The rising drug trafficking problem is another problem.  The people of Arizona are trying to promote safety and protection for innocent Americans. Hopefully this law can be enforced without promoted injustice and prejudice.

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from wikipedia:

"In its final form, HB 2162 limits the use of race. It states: "A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution." The U.S. and Arizona supreme courts have held that race may be considered in enforcing immigration law. In United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, the U.S. Supreme Court found: “The likelihood that any given person of Mexican ancestry is an alien is high enough to make Mexican appearance a relevant factor.”  The Arizona Supreme Court agrees that “enforcement of immigration laws often involves a relevant consideration of ethnic factors.” Both decisions say that race alone, however, is an insufficient basis to stop or arrest."

supposedly the newer version of the law does not allow profiling, yet both the federal and state supreme courts determined that race can be taken into consideration. I don't get how those are different. On what basis do you suspect someone to be an illegal immigrant other than race? Their occupation as a day laborer, selling fruit/flowers by the side of the road, or occupation elsewhere? If you can take race into consideration, does this mean you might card a Mexican construction worker but not a white one? I don't even see how it's walking a "fine line," it seems like it's profiling. Other ways to suspect that someone is undocumented are stereotypes (the occupations), and it seems most of those stereotypes are based on class (i've known undocumented persons who aren't exactly dirt poor, so they'd probably never be suspected aside from race).

It would cost more money/time, but why not require every one carry some form of ID and perform random checks? (maybe there are legal issues there as well, but they do randomly stop cars from time to time on the 405 freeway near San Diego/the border here). You might be fining some Canadians then too.

as far as drug importation, what about stopping demand? i know that's a lofty goal, but drug trafficking doesn't exactly require long-term illegal residents. With the requirement that the guilty persons be here longer than 30 days, I don't see how that will make much of a dent. Also, if you crossed illegally rather than just taking a... long vacation, how will they know how long you've been here if you have no documents?

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I don't understand how people that are afraid of giving government more power thinks that its alright to require people (including US citizens) to carry around ID or possibly face a prison term or deportation.  That the police can question and arrest an individual at will with few, if any, repercussions.  Does anyone else see a problem with this?  Isn't this the same things that happen in fascist Europe and apartheid South Africa?!

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I feel as if everyone should be held accountable in our country. If you're going to live in our country (no matter where you're from), you should contribute to things like taxes and social security.

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i know plenty who would love to pay taxes/social security if that meant being a resident/citizen. I don't think most people who are undocumented are so for tax evasion. A lot of people are afraid that by applying for citizenship, they'll get deported once denied. So when they do, often it's one member of the household (e.g. the dad applies so that if he gets deported the kids still have their mom). So even if the family technically made an effort to be legal, only one person is, and only one person pays taxes on income. So the fear of deportation is preventing the government from receiving taxes from people who already work here, even if some get legal status.

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i know plenty who would love to pay taxes/social security if that meant being a resident/citizen. I don't think most people who are undocumented are so for tax evasion. A lot of people are afraid that by applying for citizenship, they'll get deported once denied. So when they do, often it's one member of the household (e.g. the dad applies so that if he gets deported the kids still have their mom). So even if the family technically made an effort to be legal, only one person is, and only one person pays taxes on income. So the fear of deportation is preventing the government from receiving taxes from people who already work here, even if some get legal status.

Speaking as someone in this situation, this is SO TRUE! It's not as big a deal for me, but really, I am scared about being deported come December when my student visa expires. I am trying to apply for a work visa and am happy to pay the taxes that will come along with it rather than working under the table as a nanny. But apparently it's near impossible to get a work visa in Germany so I'm biting my nails over it. It's a mess. And I'm not a burden to the country whatsoever. So the whole thing is ridiculous. I completely feel for US immigrants.

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Also, please see this site: http://www.takeourjobs.org/ if you think that Americans should be worried about immigrants taking American jobs.

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Everyone that lives in the United States pays taxes.  You do not have to be a legal resident or have a social security number to pay sales tax, property taxes and the vast majority of taxes.  Income tax is the only one I can think of that requires documentation.

On top of that you HAVE to be at least a legal resident to be eligble for welfare, food stamps, unemployment insurance, medicade and most public services. 

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from wikipedia:

"In its final form, HB 2162 limits the use of race. It states: "A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution." The U.S. and Arizona supreme courts have held that race may be considered in enforcing immigration law. In United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, the U.S. Supreme Court found: “The likelihood that any given person of Mexican ancestry is an alien is high enough to make Mexican appearance a relevant factor.”  The Arizona Supreme Court agrees that “enforcement of immigration laws often involves a relevant consideration of ethnic factors.” Both decisions say that race alone, however, is an insufficient basis to stop or arrest."

supposedly the newer version of the law does not allow profiling, yet both the federal and state supreme courts determined that race can be taken into consideration. I don't get how those are different. On what basis do you suspect someone to be an illegal immigrant other than race? Their occupation as a day laborer, selling fruit/flowers by the side of the road, or occupation elsewhere? If you can take race into consideration, does this mean you might card a Mexican construction worker but not a white one? I don't even see how it's walking a "fine line," it seems like it's profiling. Other ways to suspect that someone is undocumented are stereotypes (the occupations), and it seems most of those stereotypes are based on class (i've known undocumented persons who aren't exactly dirt poor, so they'd probably never be suspected aside from race).

It would cost more money/time, but why not require every one carry some form of ID and perform random checks? (maybe there are legal issues there as well, but they do randomly stop cars from time to time on the 405 freeway near San Diego/the border here). You might be fining some Canadians then too.

as far as drug importation, what about stopping demand? i know that's a lofty goal, but drug trafficking doesn't exactly require long-term illegal residents. With the requirement that the guilty persons be here longer than 30 days, I don't see how that will make much of a dent. Also, if you crossed illegally rather than just taking a... long vacation, how will they know how long you've been here if you have no documents?

The law requires officers to check those who break the law. They will not be at "fruit stands" checking immigration statuses. If someone was caught driving under the influence, the officer should lawfully be able to check if the wrongdoer is even a legal citizen. As for your ID and drug ideas, I am not sure which is more likely, the money the government will waste creating these millions IDs or the programs that will be enforced that will magically stop the ongoing drug problem. Drugs have been an issue in America for quite some time and i is very unfortunate, but there are only so many aspects of society that the government can control. They can not unlawfully search houses for drugs; however, they can stop the illegal immigrants that are smuggling it across the boarder.

As I wrote earlier,  the law can promote a lot of stereo typing; however, any law can. If we let our fear officers abusing the law, overcome our fear of criminals, than why have any laws at all?

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The entire process to become a legal citizen is ridiculous. Many very close relatives of mine have waited 15+ years to get citizenship. I know that many illegal immigrants would love to be legal, making their life much easier. This is a national issue. People will not apply for citizenship if they know the process will take years and they may even get deported. I posted this poll to discuss the Arizona Immigration Law; not the national issues with immigration.Of course the national issues influence state law, but we all know that the Arizona government does not have the power to change the process to become an American citizen. For a country that was founded by immigrants, you would think that the entire process to become legal would be much more reasonable, but unfortunately that is not the case.

Since that is not the case, the government still has a duty to protect it's legal citizens.  State governments can only do what is in their power and that is why the Arizona law is so drastic. If you read Arizona's Immigration Law, it seems as though it is in place to promote the deportation of illegal immigrants that are breaking the law. What do you guys think? Mind you, I am looking at what the law appears that it is in place to do, not what corrupt policemen will do.

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I see, so it's only checking documentation on people already detained. Still, why not check that information on every one who gets detained for whatever reason (it seems like if you're stopped by the police for whatever reason they'll ask for your ID at the station anyway?), rather than specifically being able to take race into consideration? If legal residency is such an issue, it would be more thorough just to check papers on every one who comes through the legal system.

And again, the basis of suspicion that someone is undocumented seems like it can only be race. Are there certain crimes that undocumented people tend to commit, that would place a person under suspicion? Or if someone is detained and says that they don't have their ID/license on them (because they have no documents...)?

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Well, the federal law says that those who are detained can have the status of their residency checked. The law is clearly not enforced and maybe if it was enforced, than Arizona would not be forced into passing such a drastic law that requires them to check. I think people are worried about policemen who will abuse the law by racial profiling and taking advantage of he fact that many immigrants do not know much about American laws. For instance, if a woman who barely speaks English is detained for no reason, I doubt she will put up much of a fight. Even if she does choose to fight, she may be deported before she can even do anything.

But anyways, yes the law does require he policemen to check the immigration status of anyone detained. If the Arizona government can overrule the judge's ruling, and the law does go into full effect, I hope that corrupt policemen will not abuse it. It seems at though the entire country has their eyes on this issue so it will probably be monitored if it goes into full effect.

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Well, the federal law says that those who are detained can have the status of their residency checked. The law is clearly not enforced and maybe if it was enforced, than Arizona would not be forced into passing such a drastic law that requires them to check.

 Many other states are already checking the legal status of those detained after a FEDERAL request last year.  It was the state and local governments not the federal gov't that have been lax in this area (most likely due to the time and cost involved in this process).

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  Something that is often left out of this debate is that a big contributing factor to the illegal immigration problem is US trade policy, specifically the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

  This agreement really does not benefit the regular citizens of the US, Mexico or Canada. It only opens up markets for big corporations and the fat capitalists that run them. Mexico is now open to the flooding of their markets by heavily subsidized American agribusiness. A nation that used to employ many of its own people in the production of agricultural produce (especially corn, the staple crop in Mexico) has seen many workers displaced as a result of their inability to compete on this very unfair playing field.

  http://prospectjournal.ucsd.edu/index.php/2010/04/nafta-and-u-s-corn-subsidies-explaining-the-displacement-of-mexicos-corn-farmers/

  The root cause of this problem is capitalism and its inherently predatory nature. As usual, the people at the top get richer and richer while the small fellow takes a beating. It disgusts me to see that their "divide and conquer" methods change very little over the centuries and still continue to work. US residents should not be angry and distrustful of their Mexican neighbors who want to come here to try to achieve a better life after US policy has destroyed what little hope they had for such a life in their homeland. They should be furious at the monied peoples (read: US corporations) and the government that they control with their wealth for creating this crisis through their greed and shortsightedness.

Fat, white, xenophobic residents of Arizona and other border states continue to shout their aggressive ignorance at poor Mexicans, legal and illegal residents as they may be, without ever thinking for a moment that they are living on territory that was taken by force from Mexico by the US government in the nineteenth century. Many people look at any person from another country, especially those that look different from them and have a skin color that is a little darker as though they are a different and inferior species not entitled to the same rights to a decent and hopeful existence as they see themselves as having.

  The so called "patriot" movement in its many manifestations claim to hold the constitution, bill of rights and declaration of independence in high esteem, speaking of these documents as though they were holy writ. They seem to have a certain blindness toward the meaning of this passage:

  "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

  Note that it does not specify white people of European ancestry who live within the current borders of the USA. Perhaps we can extend some compassion and empathy toward those people who are the descendants of the native peoples of the territory we took by brutal force in the name of our "manifest destiny".

  Take some time to read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of he United States" if you haven't already. It casts a lot of light in dark places as our history is viewed through the eyes of those conquered rather than their conquerers. You can also find a lot of interesting reading by Noam Chomsky on US foreign policy and its consequences in Latin America and elsewhere.

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fuck'n'a, it's kbone

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fuck'n'a, it's kbone
[/quote
fuck'n'a, it's kbone

Fuckin' A. Fuckin' B, C and D too.

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I was born and raised in Arizona. I’ve lived here my whole life and this law makes me ashamed of it. First off, these immigrants are our friends and neighbors. Despite cultural differences, I consider their well-being just as important as mine. If I was born a few miles further South, I would be living in poverty.

Anyways, back on track. This law has done NOTHING for the immigration issue as a whole. All it did was make tens of thousands of illegal landscapers and drywallers flee the state to go somewhere they felt safer. We CAN’T have 50 different states with 50 different immigration laws. This is up to the federal government to decide, not us.

Also, I was raised believing that in America all men and women are treated as equals. So why is it that our state government allowed us to paint a bullseye on the backs of every latino person in the state?

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