Posted by Minke on Jul 05, 2011 · Member since Feb 2010 · 3503 posts
Well, this sure turned into a clusterfuck.
Posted by yabbitgirl on Jul 05, 2011 · Member since Apr 2006 · 14266 posts
See, this is why I class The Handmaid's Tale as a horror movie...because it is so perfectly possible, particularly in parts of the US.
0 likes
Posted by hotcooknmama on Jul 06, 2011 · Member since Sep 2009 · 848 posts
I think there's a LOT of misogynistic legislation pending or under consideration, right now in the US, that's just sickening... I would like to officially predict an ugly backlash, when (inevitably) the folks who aren't paying attention to what's on the legal horizon -- especially those folks who happen to have vaginas, or those with significant others/ family members/ loved ones who have them-- are run over by this kind of bullshit 18th-century crap... funny how we justify anti-Taliban action in the MidEast using (at least in part) their hideous treatment of women as an illustration of why they're the bad guys-- and then we do shit like this RIGHT HERE... Bull. Shit.
0 likes
Posted by mirrya1 on Jul 07, 2011 · Member since Jan 2006 · 2210 posts
I think there's a LOT of misogynistic legislation pending or under consideration, right now in the US, that's just sickening... I would like to officially predict an ugly backlash, when (inevitably) the folks who aren't paying attention to what's on the legal horizon -- especially those folks who happen to have vaginas, or those with significant others/ family members/ loved ones who have them-- are run over by this kind of bullshit 18th-century crap... funny how we justify anti-Taliban action in the MidEast using (at least in part) their hideous treatment of women as an illustration of why they're the bad guys-- and then we do shit like this RIGHT HERE... Bull. Shit.
EXACTLY!!!!
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Posted by semiveg on Jul 07, 2011 · Member since Apr 2011 · 525 posts
Something I don't understand. A viable fetus dies an avoidable death when the mom does something she knows is dangerous to the pregnancy and that is OK but a father in the area I live did something stupid but accidental to his 5 week old infant and gets 18 yrs for manslaughter?
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Posted by hotcooknmama on Jul 07, 2011 · Member since Sep 2009 · 848 posts
Different issues; both disturbing, but not legally equivalent in either scope of impact or social implication... a viable, outside-other-people, completely formed & breathing human baby is not the same thing as, well, the opposite of all those adjectives. There may be problems with other laws TOO; but we're not seeing those laws related to accidental manslaughter stepped-up in number or in severity, to any degree equivalent to those involving female reproductive issues... not just 'apples to oranges,' it's more like 'apples to opossums'. I think it's also interesting how infrequently abusive spouses are targeted by these laws, when that's the whole reason (hypothetically, anyway) that they're on the books... guess it's different if it's a *dude* doing the damage in utero... no prob there... Also: if the fetus is a legal 'person' from conception, you realize of course that anyone who uses oral contraceptives is legally culpable, since they inhibit the person's ability to live by blocking the person from attaching to the uterine wall...
Um... guys? that's f***ing insane... just, you know, so we're clear...
Also: it's exactly where this kind of legislation is headed.
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Posted by semiveg on Jul 07, 2011 · Member since Apr 2011 · 525 posts
I am trying to point out that there is a BIG double standard going the other way also. I am female. My 19 yr old daughter has an 8 month old son. She could have legally aborted with the father having no say in the matter. Since she did not, he is legally responsible for child support until the child is at least 18, possibly more if he is in a possition to pay for college. He has no choice in the matter.
A 24 wk fetus has a 50/50 chance of surviving if born yet has no legal standing until it takes a breath.
It is OK to damage that fetus but not to eat a bug or fish?
I am not saying I support the decision to prosecute the 15 yr old who attempted suicide. She needs help, not punishment.
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Posted by hotcooknmama on Jul 07, 2011 · Member since Sep 2009 · 848 posts
We agree on some things...
The last part in particular!
No governmental legislation requires men to become parents (as abortion restrictionists would rape victims), or would criminalize condom wearing (as certain factions are attempting to criminalize female contraception). I'm confident that, regardless of any financial obligation he actually meets-- which btw is completely unenforced by law unless he gets arrested & needs to make bail-- statistically your daughter's life is likely to be far more changed than his life will, including her educational and career prospects as well as her personal day to day life... so, yeah, whatev on the 'double-standard' complaints: moms still carry the bulk of the family responsibilities in this society, and so SHOULD in all fairness be in charge of that decision, imo... There's another thread here about abortion-- done to death, pardon the pun, but I realize that this is a polarizing issue, and I don't want to get all into all the reasons I think that returning to the 40's isn't the way to go, regarding this issue; but: the redefining of an embryo/ fetus (regardless of viability) as a legal 'person' equivalent to a neonate is absurd and dangerous, especially regarding the policing of women's behavior if they happen to be pregnant. Speeding in traffic? reckless endangerment... Taking dental meds for a root canal? providing controlled substances to a minor... I just don't think for a minute that this kind of legislation can possibly end up anywhere but ugly.
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Posted by Minke on Jul 07, 2011 · Member since Feb 2010 · 3503 posts
I'm pretty sure the man makes a choice when he decides to have sex with the woman. Sex comes with responsibilities and consequences.
And as hcm said, the woman is MUCH more effected and changed by a pregnancy.
I'll reply to everything else tomorrow when I've had some sleep.
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Posted by politicalmonty on Jul 08, 2011 · Member since Nov 2009 · 3633 posts
This link took me back to what's happening with Planned Parenthood so please excuse me for a second. As already mentioned, this does seem to be the year of misogyny in our national and federal congresses. Defunding Planned Parenthood really pisses me off.
With Planned Parenthood - the officials are breaking the back of the ones who need the help provided by denying them funding which ultimately keeps those resources unavailable for some of our most downtrodden citizens. You know this. I'm not giving you new info.
I'm sick and goddamn tired of these officials and their awful decisions. A woman deserves and I think is entitled a place to go to like Planned Parenthood to take care of herself when she's pregnant or when she's ill..especially when she's not able to find the resources elsewhere.
Women aren't second class or third class. They're are equal and should be treated as equal. Women should not be treated any less than the men who have charged into office to fuck-up their lives.
I'm also sick of the criminalization of women. Women have sex. Women have babies. Sometimes women have sex that doesn't lead to babies. Women do their own things. Stop making it seem to be a crime when a woman takes control of her own life and doesn't depend on some fucktard of a man who wants to rule from his patriarchy throne. A fucktard of a man who wants to demean and control every thought, action, and personal rights of someone he sees as someone below him.
I say, rise the fuck up, ladies!! I'm with you. And we all need to be with you. We're in this together. We're equal individuals..you, me, and everyone else. And we need to be treated as such. Not by our race, our religion, our class, our sexual orientation, stereotypes, and sure as fuck not our sex. Anyone who doesn't agree needs to reevaluate.
-Josh
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Posted by semiveg on Jul 08, 2011 · Member since Apr 2011 · 525 posts
As a former unplanned pregnancy, I am sure as hell glad my mom did not have an abortion! My niece is a pill baby, definitely not planned, but a productive citizen in her late 20's now. My sis should never have had kids but fortunately she was raised by her father and step-mom whom we usually refer to as our niece's mom since she did all the work of raising a wonderful young lady. The pic I added is of a friend's daughter. My friend was encouraged by medical personel to have an abortion. Instead the world was graced by this endearing snowflake who could light up a room with her smile.
When I hear all the talk about a fetus not being a person, what I hear is that since I was unplanned, I should not be here. My niece was also born a month premature, before some would not have concidered her a person worthy of saving by c-sect by the standards I am hearing.
My daughter had several people ask if she was concidering adoption because they or their friends were on wait lists already for an available baby. I have many friends who are either adopted or have adopted kids.
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Posted by tinylightsbelow on Jul 08, 2011 · Member since Aug 2010 · 98 posts
This is absolutely sickening. There are no words.
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Posted by Minke on Jul 08, 2011 · Member since Feb 2010 · 3503 posts
As a former unplanned pregnancy, I am sure as hell glad my mom did not have an abortion! My niece is a pill baby, definitely not planned, but a productive citizen in her late 20's now. My sis should never have had kids but fortunately she was raised by her father and step-mom whom we usually refer to as our niece's mom since she did all the work of raising a wonderful young lady. The pic I added is of a friend's daughter. My friend was encouraged by medical personel to have an abortion. Instead the world was graced by this endearing snowflake who could light up a room with her smile.
When I hear all the talk about a fetus not being a person, what I hear is that since I was unplanned, I should not be here. My niece was also born a month premature, before some would not have concidered her a person worthy of saving by c-sect by the standards I am hearing.
My daughter had several people ask if she was concidering adoption because they or their friends were on wait lists already for an available baby. I have many friends who are either adopted or have adopted kids.
What the hell is your point? What does it have to do with any of this? The only thing that this post points at is that you don't give a damn about the woman who is already alive but a whole hell of a lot more about a pregnancy. This isn't a debate on abortion, this is about women being imprisoned for having a miscarriage.
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Posted by hotcooknmama on Jul 08, 2011 · Member since Sep 2009 · 848 posts
Central premise: what happens inside me is not appropriate for group dictation. The end.
I never considered abortion when I became pregnant at 20, single & broke; I would now, at 40 (so yes: I'm a birth control fanatic at this point)... in either case, no one is better placed than me to make that call, and no one has the right to arrest me (in either case) for tending to my own uterus & what it's up to. I respect anyone's personal views; that's fine... but there's a huge difference between saying 'I believe (x)' and saying 'I believe (x) and therefor you'll be a criminal if you don't act in accordance with my beliefs about (x).' Which is precisely what this kind of legislation enacts.
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Posted by mirrya1 on Jul 09, 2011 · Member since Jan 2006 · 2210 posts
As a former unplanned pregnancy, I am sure as hell glad my mom did not have an abortion! My niece is a pill baby, definitely not planned, but a productive citizen in her late 20's now. My sis should never have had kids but fortunately she was raised by her father and step-mom whom we usually refer to as our niece's mom since she did all the work of raising a wonderful young lady. The pic I added is of a friend's daughter. My friend was encouraged by medical personel to have an abortion. Instead the world was graced by this endearing snowflake who could light up a room with her smile.
When I hear all the talk about a fetus not being a person, what I hear is that since I was unplanned, I should not be here. My niece was also born a month premature, before some would not have concidered her a person worthy of saving by c-sect by the standards I am hearing.
My daughter had several people ask if she was concidering adoption because they or their friends were on wait lists already for an available baby. I have many friends who are either adopted or have adopted kids.
What the hell is your point? What does it have to do with any of this? The only thing that this post points at is that you don't give a damn about the woman who is already alive but a whole hell of a lot more about a pregnancy. This isn't a debate on abortion, this is about women being imprisoned for having a miscarriage.
I don't think there was any point Minke....it was nothing more than a bunch of verbal diarrhea that had nothing to do with the original topic of discussion.
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Posted by faunablues on Jul 09, 2011 · Member since Aug 2003 · 9655 posts
Just here to say I love the phrase "verbal diarrhea."
Carry on.
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Posted by hotcooknmama on Jul 10, 2011 · Member since Sep 2009 · 848 posts
The legislative trend under discussion is clearly about attempting to control female sexuality/ redefine the role of women in society/ enforce archaic religious beliefs about what Jehovah thinks women should or shouldn't do with their vajayjays-- NOT about 'preventing abortions'. News flash: more access to birth control = less abortions.
Also-- just in case some of you guys missed it-- I can't resist re-sharing this here:
Posted by politicalmonty on Jul 11, 2011 · Member since Nov 2009 · 3633 posts
I'm not wanting to sound like a conspiracy theorist but....... I don't know if this has been discussed here or elsewhere but have any of you thought the current republicans are taking away reproductive rights because they want more babies? More babies produce a larger workforce and more taxes that they will not be responsible for. Obviously, they're currently trying to put all the taxes on the poor and the working class. They don't want to raise taxes on themselves to help pay for things. They just want to reap the profits.
I'm just thinking out-loud here.......
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Posted by hanashi on Jul 11, 2011 · Member since Nov 2007 · 2533 posts
pm, I personally think it goes the OTHER way around.... they're trying to "pre-occupy" 60% of the current workforce, to make the unemployment #'s go down. Rosy should be glowing because she's pregnant, not because she's been sweating at the factory.... They're short sighted, I believe you're giving them too much credit.
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Posted by politicalmonty on Jul 21, 2011 · Member since Nov 2009 · 3633 posts
Ooooohhh.. Good point, Hanashi! :)
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Posted by corinnas54 on Aug 29, 2011 · Member since Mar 2008 · 203 posts
I'm not wanting to sound like a conspiracy theorist but....... I don't know if this has been discussed here or elsewhere but have any of you thought the current republicans are taking away reproductive rights because they want more babies? More babies produce a larger workforce and more taxes that they will not be responsible for. Obviously, they're currently trying to put all the taxes on the poor and the working class. They don't want to raise taxes on themselves to help pay for things. They just want to reap the profits.
I'm just thinking out-loud here.......
As a Republican, I find this offensive...I pay plenty of taxes. As for the issue at hand, at the risk of getting trounced, I believe women should be held responsible for their babies. Without getting into the whole "it's not a baby yet" argument, if a woman does not have an abortion then she is planning on bringing a child into the world and she should be held responsible for it. Doing drugs while pregnant should be illegal...but these girls/women don't give a crap, they will just have a baby with possible physical and mental retardation due to drug and or alcohol abuse and then let me the taxpayer pay all the medical bills while they spend their welfare check on drugs (and they will end up on welfare if they are so addicted to drugs they can't stop for a pregnancy, then they certainly won't be able to hold a job, and now that they have a baby they qualify for free money...yay!) Meanwhille, the poor baby they didn't give a shit about has to suffer their whole life just to be used as a meal ticket and a get out of work free pass. OR the baby is dead...as in this case. Not a better option in my opinion. That girl was full term, she was planning on having a baby...a defensless child, if the mother isn't responsible to take care of and defend an innocent baby, then who is?
See, this is why I class The Handmaid's Tale as a horror movie...because it is so perfectly possible, particularly in parts of the US.
I think there's a LOT of misogynistic legislation pending or under consideration, right now in the US, that's just sickening... I would like to officially predict an ugly backlash, when (inevitably) the folks who aren't paying attention to what's on the legal horizon -- especially those folks who happen to have vaginas, or those with significant others/ family members/ loved ones who have them-- are run over by this kind of bullshit 18th-century crap... funny how we justify anti-Taliban action in the MidEast using (at least in part) their hideous treatment of women as an illustration of why they're the bad guys-- and then we do shit like this RIGHT HERE... Bull. Shit.
I think there's a LOT of misogynistic legislation pending or under consideration, right now in the US, that's just sickening... I would like to officially predict an ugly backlash, when (inevitably) the folks who aren't paying attention to what's on the legal horizon -- especially those folks who happen to have vaginas, or those with significant others/ family members/ loved ones who have them-- are run over by this kind of bullshit 18th-century crap... funny how we justify anti-Taliban action in the MidEast using (at least in part) their hideous treatment of women as an illustration of why they're the bad guys-- and then we do shit like this RIGHT HERE... Bull. Shit.
EXACTLY!!!!
Something I don't understand. A viable fetus dies an avoidable death when the mom does something she knows is dangerous to the pregnancy and that is OK but a father in the area I live did something stupid but accidental to his 5 week old infant and gets 18 yrs for manslaughter?
Different issues; both disturbing, but not legally equivalent in either scope of impact or social implication... a viable, outside-other-people, completely formed & breathing human baby is not the same thing as, well, the opposite of all those adjectives. There may be problems with other laws TOO; but we're not seeing those laws related to accidental manslaughter stepped-up in number or in severity, to any degree equivalent to those involving female reproductive issues... not just 'apples to oranges,' it's more like 'apples to opossums'. I think it's also interesting how infrequently abusive spouses are targeted by these laws, when that's the whole reason (hypothetically, anyway) that they're on the books... guess it's different if it's a *dude* doing the damage in utero... no prob there... Also: if the fetus is a legal 'person' from conception, you realize of course that anyone who uses oral contraceptives is legally culpable, since they inhibit the person's ability to live by blocking the person from attaching to the uterine wall...
Um... guys? that's f***ing insane... just, you know, so we're clear...
Also: it's exactly where this kind of legislation is headed.
I am trying to point out that there is a BIG double standard going the other way also. I am female. My 19 yr old daughter has an 8 month old son. She could have legally aborted with the father having no say in the matter. Since she did not, he is legally responsible for child support until the child is at least 18, possibly more if he is in a possition to pay for college. He has no choice in the matter.
A 24 wk fetus has a 50/50 chance of surviving if born yet has no legal standing until it takes a breath.
It is OK to damage that fetus but not to eat a bug or fish?
I am not saying I support the decision to prosecute the 15 yr old who attempted suicide. She needs help, not punishment.
We agree on some things...
The last part in particular!
No governmental legislation requires men to become parents (as abortion restrictionists would rape victims), or would criminalize condom wearing (as certain factions are attempting to criminalize female contraception). I'm confident that, regardless of any financial obligation he actually meets-- which btw is completely unenforced by law unless he gets arrested & needs to make bail-- statistically your daughter's life is likely to be far more changed than his life will, including her educational and career prospects as well as her personal day to day life... so, yeah, whatev on the 'double-standard' complaints: moms still carry the bulk of the family responsibilities in this society, and so SHOULD in all fairness be in charge of that decision, imo... There's another thread here about abortion-- done to death, pardon the pun, but I realize that this is a polarizing issue, and I don't want to get all into all the reasons I think that returning to the 40's isn't the way to go, regarding this issue; but: the redefining of an embryo/ fetus (regardless of viability) as a legal 'person' equivalent to a neonate is absurd and dangerous, especially regarding the policing of women's behavior if they happen to be pregnant. Speeding in traffic? reckless endangerment... Taking dental meds for a root canal? providing controlled substances to a minor... I just don't think for a minute that this kind of legislation can possibly end up anywhere but ugly.
I'm pretty sure the man makes a choice when he decides to have sex with the woman. Sex comes with responsibilities and consequences.
And as hcm said, the woman is MUCH more effected and changed by a pregnancy.
I'll reply to everything else tomorrow when I've had some sleep.
This link took me back to what's happening with Planned Parenthood so please excuse me for a second. As already mentioned, this does seem to be the year of misogyny in our national and federal congresses. Defunding Planned Parenthood really pisses me off.
With Planned Parenthood - the officials are breaking the back of the ones who need the help provided by denying them funding which ultimately keeps those resources unavailable for some of our most downtrodden citizens. You know this. I'm not giving you new info.
I'm sick and goddamn tired of these officials and their awful decisions. A woman deserves and I think is entitled a place to go to like Planned Parenthood to take care of herself when she's pregnant or when she's ill..especially when she's not able to find the resources elsewhere.
Women aren't second class or third class. They're are equal and should be treated as equal. Women should not be treated any less than the men who have charged into office to fuck-up their lives.
I'm also sick of the criminalization of women. Women have sex. Women have babies. Sometimes women have sex that doesn't lead to babies. Women do their own things. Stop making it seem to be a crime when a woman takes control of her own life and doesn't depend on some fucktard of a man who wants to rule from his patriarchy throne. A fucktard of a man who wants to demean and control every thought, action, and personal rights of someone he sees as someone below him.
I say, rise the fuck up, ladies!! I'm with you. And we all need to be with you. We're in this together. We're equal individuals..you, me, and everyone else. And we need to be treated as such. Not by our race, our religion, our class, our sexual orientation, stereotypes, and sure as fuck not our sex. Anyone who doesn't agree needs to reevaluate.
-Josh
As a former unplanned pregnancy, I am sure as hell glad my mom did not have an abortion! My niece is a pill baby, definitely not planned, but a productive citizen in her late 20's now. My sis should never have had kids but fortunately she was raised by her father and step-mom whom we usually refer to as our niece's mom since she did all the work of raising a wonderful young lady. The pic I added is of a friend's daughter. My friend was encouraged by medical personel to have an abortion. Instead the world was graced by this endearing snowflake who could light up a room with her smile.
When I hear all the talk about a fetus not being a person, what I hear is that since I was unplanned, I should not be here. My niece was also born a month premature, before some would not have concidered her a person worthy of saving by c-sect by the standards I am hearing.
My daughter had several people ask if she was concidering adoption because they or their friends were on wait lists already for an available baby. I have many friends who are either adopted or have adopted kids.
This is absolutely sickening. There are no words.
As a former unplanned pregnancy, I am sure as hell glad my mom did not have an abortion! My niece is a pill baby, definitely not planned, but a productive citizen in her late 20's now. My sis should never have had kids but fortunately she was raised by her father and step-mom whom we usually refer to as our niece's mom since she did all the work of raising a wonderful young lady. The pic I added is of a friend's daughter. My friend was encouraged by medical personel to have an abortion. Instead the world was graced by this endearing snowflake who could light up a room with her smile.
When I hear all the talk about a fetus not being a person, what I hear is that since I was unplanned, I should not be here. My niece was also born a month premature, before some would not have concidered her a person worthy of saving by c-sect by the standards I am hearing.
My daughter had several people ask if she was concidering adoption because they or their friends were on wait lists already for an available baby. I have many friends who are either adopted or have adopted kids.
What the hell is your point? What does it have to do with any of this? The only thing that this post points at is that you don't give a damn about the woman who is already alive but a whole hell of a lot more about a pregnancy. This isn't a debate on abortion, this is about women being imprisoned for having a miscarriage.
Central premise: what happens inside me is not appropriate for group dictation. The end.
Relevant poetry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLcsJUJjaXM
I never considered abortion when I became pregnant at 20, single & broke; I would now, at 40 (so yes: I'm a birth control fanatic at this point)... in either case, no one is better placed than me to make that call, and no one has the right to arrest me (in either case) for tending to my own uterus & what it's up to. I respect anyone's personal views; that's fine... but there's a huge difference between saying 'I believe (x)' and saying 'I believe (x) and therefor you'll be a criminal if you don't act in accordance with my beliefs about (x).' Which is precisely what this kind of legislation enacts.
As a former unplanned pregnancy, I am sure as hell glad my mom did not have an abortion! My niece is a pill baby, definitely not planned, but a productive citizen in her late 20's now. My sis should never have had kids but fortunately she was raised by her father and step-mom whom we usually refer to as our niece's mom since she did all the work of raising a wonderful young lady. The pic I added is of a friend's daughter. My friend was encouraged by medical personel to have an abortion. Instead the world was graced by this endearing snowflake who could light up a room with her smile.
When I hear all the talk about a fetus not being a person, what I hear is that since I was unplanned, I should not be here. My niece was also born a month premature, before some would not have concidered her a person worthy of saving by c-sect by the standards I am hearing.
My daughter had several people ask if she was concidering adoption because they or their friends were on wait lists already for an available baby. I have many friends who are either adopted or have adopted kids.
What the hell is your point? What does it have to do with any of this? The only thing that this post points at is that you don't give a damn about the woman who is already alive but a whole hell of a lot more about a pregnancy. This isn't a debate on abortion, this is about women being imprisoned for having a miscarriage.
I don't think there was any point Minke....it was nothing more than a bunch of verbal diarrhea that had nothing to do with the original topic of discussion.
Just here to say I love the phrase "verbal diarrhea."
Carry on.
http://www.care2.com/causes/less-birth-control-more-ultrasounds-how-the-gop-wants-to-force-women-to-bear-more-children.html
The legislative trend under discussion is clearly about attempting to control female sexuality/ redefine the role of women in society/ enforce archaic religious beliefs about what Jehovah thinks women should or shouldn't do with their vajayjays-- NOT about 'preventing abortions'. News flash: more access to birth control = less abortions.
Also-- just in case some of you guys missed it-- I can't resist re-sharing this here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQhCWfXu2o&feature=fvst
I'm not wanting to sound like a conspiracy theorist but....... I don't know if this has been discussed here or elsewhere but have any of you thought the current republicans are taking away reproductive rights because they want more babies? More babies produce a larger workforce and more taxes that they will not be responsible for. Obviously, they're currently trying to put all the taxes on the poor and the working class. They don't want to raise taxes on themselves to help pay for things. They just want to reap the profits.
I'm just thinking out-loud here.......
pm, I personally think it goes the OTHER way around.... they're trying to "pre-occupy" 60% of the current workforce, to make the unemployment #'s go down. Rosy should be glowing because she's pregnant, not because she's been sweating at the factory.... They're short sighted, I believe you're giving them too much credit.
Ooooohhh.. Good point, Hanashi! :)
I'm not wanting to sound like a conspiracy theorist but....... I don't know if this has been discussed here or elsewhere but have any of you thought the current republicans are taking away reproductive rights because they want more babies? More babies produce a larger workforce and more taxes that they will not be responsible for. Obviously, they're currently trying to put all the taxes on the poor and the working class. They don't want to raise taxes on themselves to help pay for things. They just want to reap the profits.
I'm just thinking out-loud here.......
As a Republican, I find this offensive...I pay plenty of taxes. As for the issue at hand, at the risk of getting trounced, I believe women should be held responsible for their babies. Without getting into the whole "it's not a baby yet" argument, if a woman does not have an abortion then she is planning on bringing a child into the world and she should be held responsible for it. Doing drugs while pregnant should be illegal...but these girls/women don't give a crap, they will just have a baby with possible physical and mental retardation due to drug and or alcohol abuse and then let me the taxpayer pay all the medical bills while they spend their welfare check on drugs (and they will end up on welfare if they are so addicted to drugs they can't stop for a pregnancy, then they certainly won't be able to hold a job, and now that they have a baby they qualify for free money...yay!) Meanwhille, the poor baby they didn't give a shit about has to suffer their whole life just to be used as a meal ticket and a get out of work free pass. OR the baby is dead...as in this case. Not a better option in my opinion. That girl was full term, she was planning on having a baby...a defensless child, if the mother isn't responsible to take care of and defend an innocent baby, then who is?
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