Honey
Posted by Allychristine on Jul 21, 2008 · Member since Dec 2007 · 15438 posts
Eating honey is not vegan.
Discuss.
I know this has been talked about many a time on VW, but I would like to be involved in the discussion. If you aren't interested in debating if/why/etc. eating honey is not/is vegan, then don't post!
In my area honey is one of the only means of income for certain families, and this is something I care about. Although I do not buy it(because I don't eat it), I couldn't see arguing against it with one of these family members.
Dairy is the main source of income for some people. Meat is for others. That doesn't mean I think these industries should exist. I don't really care, in the big picture, if an industry fades out of existence. That happens all the time. Lots of people's livelihoods used to depend on, say, blacksmithing. Now, not so much. Industries change, and jobs change.
I'm not going to argue with or disrespect a dairy farmer face-to-face, either, but that doesn't mean I support his industry. I don't. Same with honey. It's not about villainizing beekeepers, it's about disagreeing with the crux of what an industry is about.
And yes, people on here have tried to say it's somehow exempt from being excluded in a "vegan" diet.
Why do people come onto a vegan site and talk about eating honey? It's rude.
Ok, just gonna voice a few quick things, before moving on to new horizons of debate & discussion...
a) This thread was started by a *vegan* specifically to invite comment, presumably from folks with differing points of view... so, was it rude to start the topic? or just rude to respond?
b) Forum discussions are very, very boring if all participants have identical ideas and opinions; would it be less offensive if every posting, for 27 pages & counting, said, "Yeah, me too?"
c) If you're offended when people present ideas not just like yours, I dunno, maybe "Food Fight" isn't the best place to hang out! lol
I think the deal with honey is the same deal as with all other foods: educate yourself & eat it or not, based on your own ethical convictions...
PS- I think now I'd like to debate a topic a little less incendiary & volatile... religion or politics, anyone?
;)
hh is just speaking with the history of the thread in mind. AC started the thread when the topic came up in other threads of people who identify as vegan still eating honey. AC started the topic due to other people's rudeness getting kind of out of hand (I don't recall what the original thread was but I remember the instance). She made it BECAUSE people in other threads kept saying eating honey was vegan and it was getting very tiring.
It's like this: people don't come on vegweb and talk about how they think it's so great to support the dairy industry. Likewise for honey.
I know hh isn't easily offended by other viewpoints. If that were the case she would have left like 4 years ago......the whole "honey is vegan" or "I rationalize eating honey by..." thing just gets tired and it's kind of a smack in the face to the spirit of the site.
yeah, the topic is so old. If you want to eat honey, fine, just don't ask us to agree with you.
Ok- full disclosure: food ethics are very important to me, but I may define this term differently than most here... only about 95% vegan, so maybe take this with a grain of garlic sea-salt, so to speak!...
...my point is that the important thing is to make the best decisions you can, to do the least harm you can do...
I certainly respect the position of "no animal anything"..... there are lots of yummy things that are not honey, so I'm not a frequent consumer, and am not saying that everyone should go out & eat some honey right away. If someone's goal is veganism, honey clearly doesn't fit...
I forgot that I started this thread. I do remember being like ohhhhhhhhmeeeeegod...the honey thing. Still.
I'll just leave this here..
Going over opinions of the past. Seems like I'm definitely on the epic fail side of this debate.
To my knowledge, honey doesn't contain any B12. B12 is made by an enteric bacteria, but I guess there might be honey out there fortified with B12. In which case, taking a supplement is going to be about the same.
I don't eat honey, although I do see why some vegan would eat it: the bees make the honey, not the same way that cows 'make' milk. Humans get the milk out of the cow and humans don't actually squash a bee to get honey.
From my point of view I still think that it's cruel to have 'a bee farm' in which bees are 'slaves'.
I have decided that instead of arguing my points, I will instead simply do my research and care for some bees myself. This way I know they will not be subjected to any abuse and any honey that is produced will benefit the hive. I will care for them as I would for any other animal companion.
why bother? just get yourself some agave nectar... "vegan honey"... why give up being vegan to eat honey?
That is definitely worthy of consideration..
I just love the bees. Colony Collapse Disorder makes me sad..
i am sure all the non vegans will make up for your non honey consumption... just a thought... i never really used honey that much so for me it's pretty easy to give up
I suppose you are right.. Never crossed my mind really. Good call ;)b
why bother? just get yourself some agave nectar... "vegan honey"... why give up being vegan to eat honey?
So true. With agave nectar available I cannot see why anyone would need honey. The problem with honey is they put it in so many processed foods, often just trace amount so the manufactures can market the product as having honey. Look at how many whole grain breads have honey. It's in a lot of barbecue sauces, cereals.
i know! honey is in just about all the breads i have checked out... it's vegan except for honey why can't they just leave it out?
we had a bunch of mates around on Friday night for dinner and some drinks, and one of the guys was telling me about this beer he thought I'd like, but it's flavoured with rata honey.
I just said to him that I don't eat honey, and he looked confused for about 30 seconds, then said, 'ooooh, is it because it's made by beeeees?' and moved on.
As evidenced by this 28 page thread, honey seems to be one of those things that even veg*ns get confused about, so I thought that was a pretty quick pick up of what the point in not eating honey is, especially for a half-drunk omnivore.
Sorry, that really doesn't contribute much but it was on my mind, so there you go! ; )
oh, and I have a bottle of agave that my friend bought for me in the States, and I showed it to him as my 'hippy honey' and he thought it smelled amazing. One of the other guys, however, assured me it smelled like sunscreen lotion, so... yeah...
oh, and I have a bottle of agave that my friend bought for me in the States, and I showed it to him as my 'hippy honey' and he thought it smelled amazing. One of the other guys, however, assured me it smelled like sunscreen lotion, so... yeah...
Is agave nectar hard to get in NZ? It is available in all the major markets here in California but it is just within the last year that it has really gained popularity. It has a high glycemic index so it is absorbed slowly into the body. You don't get spikes in your blood sugar or the sugar highs and lows. It is also 25% sweeter than sugar. I never noticed any unpleasant smell. It smells sort of like honey to me. ;)b
I have decided that instead of arguing my points, I will instead simply do my research and care for some bees myself. This way I know they will not be subjected to any abuse and any honey that is produced will benefit the hive. I will care for them as I would for any other animal companion.
do you know what the source was for that (that whoever wrote than on wikianswers used)? I looked up honey on nutritiondata and it showed 0.0 mcg of B12. In fact, the only things on that list that show any values in nutritiondata is vitamin C (3% for one cup of honey) and B6 (4%). I guess it depends on what flowers they get their nectar from, but i'm very doubtful of B12 because of its source (bacteria).
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