what do you make of this advert for vegtalk (and what is says about veganism)?
Posted by asleep on a sunbeam on Sep 20, 2010 · Member since Aug 2009 · 287 posts
http://www.vegtalk.org/promotion/slim_erotic_legs.jpg
I came across this recently, and I've slammed it for a few reasons, but I was wondering what peoples first reactions are on other veggie/vegan based chat forums.
I think its sending very stupid, wrong and dangerous messages, I'll post back after a few replies (or if I don't, pm me and it should go into one of my email addresses and I'll get back to it).
I used to worry about knowing my own mind, and then I realised I don't actually have one. ;D
Haha... Look I'm not going to jump in the debate of weather being vegan can make you skinny... but it sure as hell can't make you six feet tall! I think I'd have to get a bone graft if I wanted legs like those!
I think it's a tasteless ad that focuses on one of the least important aspects of veganism, increased weight control. Veganism is bigger than that. Why not have an ad that shows how veganism fights diabetes, cancer, arthritis, high blood pressure and cholesterol. They focus on the fact that sex sells as many companies, but the legs aren't even sexy.
Haha... Look I'm not going to jump in the debate of weather being vegan can make you skinny... but it sure as hell can't make you six feet tall! I think I'd have to get a bone graft if I wanted legs like those!
and transgender reassignment surgery... ;)
I just think it's not a good choice. It's not clear what they are trying to say and even if they are trying to mix sexy legs with veganism..it's a weak argument.
It's just odd and not really representative of the vegan community, what they talk about, etc.
To tinylights, I would be interested to read what might be the source of your dad's beliefs? Seems typical to me though of people who don't think with a veg*n mindset.
If you should choose to debate this or other things with your dad/family, one thing you can remember is that a veg*n belief system often comes from within. (Listening to one's body, heart, mind, conscience,etc.) And also instead of being overpowering and disconnecting as meat eaters often do, (such as seemingly in the case of your dad/family) a veg*n mindset often chooses to be empowering (perhaps somebody here with a veg*n mindset can tell me how to italicise?),... and connecting.
Until your dad's beliefs are challenged (enough) perhaps his mind, - or dare I say, lack of using his mind, may continue to fool him(!)
To tinylights, I would be interested to read what might be the source of your dad's beliefs? Seems typical to me though of people who don't think with a veg*n mindset.
If you should choose to debate this or other things with your dad/family, one thing you can remember is that a veg*n belief system often comes from within. (Listening to one's body, heart, mind, conscience,etc.) And also instead of being overpowering and disconnecting as meat eaters often do, (such as seemingly in the case of your dad/family) a veg*n mindset often chooses to be empowering (perhaps somebody here with a veg*n mindset can tell me how to italicise?),... and connecting.
Until your dad's beliefs are challenged (enough) perhaps his mind, - or dare I say, lack of using his mind, may continue to fool him(!)
I hope you don't talk to meat eaters that way, I can't imagine a meat eater not being alienated from that kind of talk.
it's the same old story, sex sells
To asleep; As you probably know, many conflicts are often begun by people who've been led to believe that they're doing the right thing. (Which is a good reason to question from what source they get their beliefs). In the case of tinylight's dad, he probably thinks he's doing the right thing. Many meat eaters think that they're doing the right thing. By kindly putting a verbal mirror in front of them and showing how their overpowering is harmful, it can bring understanding, and possibly (some) connection. And is also therefore more likely, in my opinion, to put a stop, or at least some sort of turnaround to the alienation that is already going on. It's hard for people to connect if one is trying to overpower the other. Some people sometimes may not be (fully) aware of the (subtle) differences between overpowering and empowering. (Perhaps at times I'm one of them?) If you can suggest some other/better ways to inform people of what they might not be fully aware of, feel welcome to inform me, I would be interested to read them.
I wonder though, if I may ask, by slamming and perhaps trying to get rid of an ad that is more "universally" attractive than any other suggestion offered on this thread, how many people might you possibly be alienating?
Well, Asleep On A Sunbeam certainly hasn't alienated any of us regular VWers...most of us seem to agree with his points...
To asleep; As you probably know, many conflicts are often begun by people who've been led to believe that they're doing the right thing. (Which is a good reason to question from what source they get their beliefs). In the case of tinylight's dad, he probably thinks he's doing the right thing. Many meat eaters think that they're doing the right thing. By kindly putting a verbal mirror in front of them and showing how their overpowering is harmful, it can bring understanding, and possibly (some) connection. And is also therefore more likely, in my opinion, to put a stop, or at least some sort of turnaround to the alienation that is already going on. It's hard for people to connect if one is trying to overpower the other. Some people sometimes may not be (fully) aware of the (subtle) differences between overpowering and empowering. (Perhaps at times I'm one of them?) If you can suggest some other/better ways to inform people of what they might not be fully aware of, feel welcome to inform me, I would be interested to read them.
I wonder though, if I may ask, by slamming and perhaps trying to get rid of an ad that is more "universally" attractive than any other suggestion offered on this thread, how many people might you possibly be alienating?
To clarify this is what I (most) take issue with:
" Until your dad's beliefs are challenged (enough) perhaps his mind, - or dare I say, lack of using his mind, may continue to fool him(!)"
That has implications about his everyday life unrelated to the discussion. It also comes of as holier than thou and preachy, as if someone else is somehow better than him. That is a belief people can hold, and to a degree communicate, but if so the only place it has any relevance (in this instance) is moral philosophy and applied philosophy.
Your post demonstrated no understanding of either of those things. Which in turn just came off as patronising and confrontational about something that he may not have thought about in other ways. Presenting those ways is one thing, making judgements about him is another.
And that's a very different scenario from what the vegtalk advert implies, as it shows a very distinct possibility of manipulation and purposeful miscommunication. The parts about health are more either right or wrong, instead of in the opinion of 'x'. As is the ability to or not to have legs like that. That part is much more related to natural science instead of philosophy.
I'm not sure what you mean by this:
"..."universally" attractive than any other suggestion offered on this thread, how many people might you possibly be alienating?"
Well, Asleep On A Sunbeam certainly hasn't alienated any of us regular VWers...most of us seem to agree with his points...
Perhaps that's partly because the main thrusts of my arguments are attacking the advert itself, and the minor thrusts are linked to the people who made it and put it up, as opposed to it being about someone's dad.
Perhaps it's because the target audience is one that tends to be more schooled in these things than the target audience that veganjerran seems to be looking at (as in the vegan community there's generally a strong trend of topics on things relating to consumerism and advertising, which seems to be very linked to the common vegan outlooks on responsibility).
Either way there seems to be a world of difference between the scenario and points made both by me and other users on the topic of the advert, and what the most productive way of addressing meat eaters on topics surrounding animals in philosophy are.
And thanks for the nice reply ;)b.
I have to admit i think it's weird the vegan thing has become a fad for dieters.. and although i don't like to point fingers I'm starting to wonder if its from some pretty famous not fat "bitches" in reading material. however your reason let it be your reason not society telling you to do it to be skinnier.
Ummmm, can anybody say, "wrong message"?
Who in their right mind would even want legs that skinny? They look darn unhealthy to me.
Yay! VJ's back!
Flew in from Miami Beach BOAC, didn't get to bed last night.....
The above is the opening verse to the opening song on what many people (including myself) believe to be (one of) the best albums of popular music history - The Beatles White Album. Sgt Pepper (among others) may have got the propeller spinning, but in my opinion The White Album was one that took pop music off the ground.
And yes, VJ is back on this rather oppresive thread, - "Back In The USSR" one could say - to try again to take this thread off the ground of emotion, and into the air of reason, - and to try to point out what I feel is truly dangerous; the dangers of thoughtless cencorship/traducement - or what I percieve to be thoughtless/disregarding/unreasoning approaches toward such. So as the band of life plays on, let's invite our prudence to come out to play, and look through the many layers of the glass onion of the "pane" that can make a person cry, - or develop eating disorders, or withdraw with depression, or abuse drugs, turn to violence, etc. etc. etc... And instead of blaming and banging like a resounding gong, maybe we can work together and make a good harmonious song - with instrumentation that instead of trying to drown out and overpower the other, rather works together to make harmony among sister and brother, and see (and wake up?) the love there that's sleeping... while my guitar gently weeps.....
To quote famous aviator Orville Wright, "If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true were really true , there would be little hope of advancement."(How much hope would there be for veganism?) (At least in The U.S.?) So, let's take a look at this picture again; Does the picture/pictures like this really cause eating disorders? Does the picture really state or even imply that a woman ... Like before I will have to post this hastily.
... must be skinny to be sexy? Does an ad for a casino showing people winning, state or even imply that people must be winners to be somebody, or to enter a casino?* Or are they using a "universal" appeal of excitement/winning to lure\attract interest? Does the serving suggestion on a box of cornflakes state/imply that's the only way to have cornflakes? If so then does a picture of an athelete say a man (or woman) must be muscular and/or handsome (and or rich?) to be considred appealing? How many people take steroids or go to other extremes to try to reach such an ideal? Do you want to take down the ad b/c you feel it would be safer? Do you want to ban gymnastics in which sometimes more than 50% of the participants develop eating disorders? (And since asleep, or aoas, seems to know a little about zinc (from a different thread) I wonder why he hasn't stated that zinc may often benifit such cases(?)) Do you also want to ban musical masterpieces such as the White Album b/c a greedy lawyer and irresponsible, no-account parents want to get rich and get the "parents" off the hook?
To look deeper at the possible underlying cause, one may find that many teens/children/people who live in a repressed society/country/family will often begin to have many unmet needs - which often can lead to such things as eating disorders, depressiion, drug abuse, and many other symptoms. ... Again w/ this small box to print on.....
(*Edit) This may read more clear as; A picture of a winning hand - such as 4 aces is not something that all who enter a casino will achieve/receive. A winning hand, like sexy legs may be an exciting goal to try for but the understanding of the odds are usually at least somewhat mutually assumed. Eh, maybe I'll be back to restate that again when I have more time.
...I say instead of people wanting to blame various forms of art, literature...expression, why not look for the real cause and stop feeding greedy lawyers and lazy irresponsible no-account "parents" wanting to get themselves rich and/or off the hook by using some diversion/scapegoat. How come it seems that noone (but me) on this thread has percieved the picture to be that of an athelete? (Or actually an acrobat according to Vegtalk.) Some of this may be descriptive of tinylight's dad, I do not know, but some of the danger signals are there in my perception. *To further show relevance of the situation with tinylights'* dad to the thread, (and some of you may have seen the question coming) what is the source of your beliefs? From what mindset did you develop your beliefs? *Might it not be from a similar mindset as tinylights' dad?* The questions go out to anyone who may care to answer *any of* them.
Spurious labels/judgements can be dangerous. Some people , such as in the medical establishment or "educationl" system seem to feel that by labeling something/someone that they've got it all figured out. But really, what does that do except draw a line between that such and such and themselves? (When a deeper perception based on veganlike empathy and other qualities can bring a much better connection and understanding, yes?)
Scientists after all do not observe a bird that destroys it's own eggs into scrambled eggs and say "well that does not happen; that one is just a monster." Rather they correctly conclude that if one bird did it, then others might, - and that there must be some cause, some predictability, - they look for the source, - not the diversion or scapegoat. (To be continued...)
(Edits)
Takes a little more work but at least innocent people such as skinny girls/pictures or caring websites or musicians/music stores, authors, artists, etc don't recieve the blame as being the cause, but if anything, a (perhaps final) straw on the proverbial camel's back. (And therefore the real cause is more likely to be found.)
The computer session is soon to run out of time for me (so for one, try to excuse the lack of editing.) Also I may be a little behind on sleep and could use a snooze. And although I've been off the ground for a while and could use a good nap, I still wouldn't want to be asleep on a sunbeam,- I'd have to take myself too lightly!
;) Yeah, I could use a wink, so before I quote a yabbit, I'm gonna go grab it.
P.s. But before I do, I've been curious with a question for jessimaka33 and/or others who may feel similar. If the girl in the picture - or someone you considered frail or weak wanted to, say, sit by you in study hall, or walk to calss w/ you - or perhaps wanted to be friends w/ you, would you turn her away?
P.s. but before I do, I've been curious with a question for jessimaka33 and/or others who may feel similar**. If the girl in the picture - or someone you considered frail or weak wanted to, say, sit by you in study hall, or walk to calss w/ you - or perhaps wanted to be friends w/ you, would you turn her away?
well this is possibly the funniest question that has ever been presented to me, haha. Anyone that knows me personally would laugh at this, but since you don't, i will forgive you.
I have friends and acquaintances from all realms of life, shapes and sizes, and backgrounds. friends from 100lbs - 400+ lbs (since i assume you are speaking of size). I don't discriminate based on looks of people, I go with what is in the mind, and personality.
to answer your question... I view weak people as weak minded people. I would allow them to walk to class or sit by me, and i would be nice and talk to them. As for being good friends with them... probably not as i am trying to improve and better myself. Having weak minded people around me would only bring me down. I would fall into a loop of trying to help them thus bringing me down and enable them (generally speaking from experience).
**I am curious as to how you think i feel on this subject... since you seem to know how i feel...
Rats!... I've killed it..... (Charlie Brown)
Thanks for your response jessimaka33. I'll try to answer it soon.
I used to worry about knowing my own mind, and then I realised I don't actually have one. ;D
Maybe that's because you're all heart! (ha ha) .....
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