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"competitive birthing" WTF?

So I was wasting time at the library and stumbled across several stories about how affluent families are now having more children by almost 30 percent in the past 10 years compared to what they were having before. Apparently kids are considered as "status symbol" because it costs so much to raise them!? Additionally, women are competing with one another after they leave the professional world in order to justify staying home with a child (ie, staying home for one child does not seem as noble as staying home with four children.) Having multiple children also speaks of ones femininity, apparently?

Seriously, what the f***? I'm 100% in favor of reproductive rights. If there was ever a goverment enforced population control (like the one child rule in China) you can bet your ass I would buy a gun and establish a secret network like the underground railroad. (interestingly, I'm more convinced I do not want to have children than that I do)  I also don't believe anyone should be encouraged NOT to have children based on their socio-eccinomic status. Comments about people having more children than they can afford bug the shit out of me. But I'm just really disturbed that anyone would have a child to keep up with the Joneses. Additionally, that a woman would feel that in order to succeed as a woman, she needs to pop out as many kids as possible. That she has no worth outside of child baring. Seems like a really archaic idea to me. I cant help but wonder why they aren't concerned with over population either. Particularly, if they are a graduate from a school like Yale or Harvard where they most certainly had to take classes about sociology, economy and other forms of social studies. They can't feign ignorance about the worlds already overpopulated condition. Not that ignorance is a justification for over populating, either.  And not that there should be a forced population control.

I'm not really sure where I am going with this...I'm not trying to pick on any group of people because of their family size or income. And although I don't know what is a justifiable "reason" for bringing more children into the world, I just get the knee-jerk reaction to roll my eyes when I think of a child being born for a parents social status. I think another reason this so bothers me is because of the HUGE number of children in fostercare around the country/world.  Like, I totally get wanting to pass on your genes to a second generation, But after having a few kids, why not adopt if you want a bigger family? Not that adoption should be used as a status symbol either, but I dunno....just seems sick to me.

Among the families that I knew growing up, our family with four kids was the smallest. The largest had 17 children (the youngest of whom died tragically.) I guess when I really THINK about it, some of the explanation for having such large families could have been a status symbol, in its own right. And perhaps has always been so. Although I think in these groups it was more about religious affluence than fiscal affluence (the whole, we-dont-believe-in-using-birthcontrol-and-have-10-children-to-prove-it, thing) Another factor that may have been involved was that almost all the families I knew were biracial, so maybe there was a cultural influence? Socially, the mothers of the larger clans were more reveared by the other parents as wise, patient, good, etc. Of course all this is just retro speclation. Maybe they really just wanted to love 17 birth children? I personally, loved being around the enormous families. I plan on having quite the brood myself one day, maybe 6-8 kids? But I also plan on building my family through the means of older-child adoption. And it actually is because I want to love lots of kids who need someone to love them and tell them they are worth-while.

So, all that said, maybe this is not new thing at all? Maybe it really is a return to the "basics." Maybe women and families are liberating themselves from NOT having children in order to be viewed as "responsible" green-minded, socially-aware people. I don't know but its got to be an interesting debate, no?

I don't have any articles about it but if you type in "competitive birthing" into google you can read all about it.

ADDED: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?xml=/portal/2007/05/16/nosplit/ftalpha116.xml
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12513004&sc=emaf and this one is from NPR but really has a lot of info.

hmm... for what it's worth, which is probably nothing, i don't know anyone who sees a family with tons of kids as successful or that the mother is more feminine than anyone else....

mostly, i think it's crazy. i mean, to each their own. if you want to have 10 kids, that's your choice.. is what you're talking about more in like popular/wealthy areas like the Hamptons/Hollywood/etc? cuz i'm not really sure where else people can afford to have so many kids nowadays. my BF's mother has quite a few siblings i believe, but she was born over 45 years ago and that was more common then, wasn't it?

we had a neighbor when i was younger, before they moved they had 6 kids because their religion didn't believe in birth control. i get that's different from what you're talking about, but they could barely control the kids they have...

i kinda think if you really want that many kids, you should consider adopting. there are too many kids already in the world that need homes

if anything i just said was offensive, i didn't mean it to be

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i kinda think if you really want that many kids, you should consider adopting. there are too many kids already in the world that need homes

;)b YES!!!!!!!! 

YES^2!!!! I have so much respect for parents who adopt several children.  Or any children. 

I had so many ideas about what this thread would be when I read the title.  I pictured a bunch of women laying with their legs spread competing to pop out a baby the quickest.  :-D

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i kinda think if you really want that many kids, you should consider adopting. there are too many kids already in the world that need homes

;)b YES!!!!!!!! 

Hey, mdvegan, I think I might have seen a quotation by you in this month's VegNews about this very topic, no?

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I had so many ideas about what this thread would be when I read the title.  I pictured a bunch of women laying with their legs spread competing to pop out a baby the quickest.   :-D

hehe- I thought the same thing! I don't know that article seems silly, but I don't relaly understand why ANYONE wants to ever have kids. I just don't see the point.

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i kinda think if you really want that many kids, you should consider adopting. there are too many kids already in the world that need homes

;)b YES!!!!!!!! 

exactly

...I think another reason this so bothers me is because of the HUGE number of children in fostercare around the country/world.  Like, I totally get wanting to pass on your genes to a second generation, But after having a few kids, why not adopt if you want a bigger family?...

...I personally, loved being around the enormous families. I plan on having quite the brood myself one day, maybe 6-8 kids? But I also plan on building my family through the means of older-child adoption. And it actually is because I want to love lots of kids who need someone to love them and tell them they are worth-while...

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sorry, but when i read the title to this "competitive birthing," i pictured two women in labor racing to the finish, so to speak.

...  ;D

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lol...competitive birthing does conger certain mental images. maybe they should find a different name for the phenomenon

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i kinda think if you really want that many kids, you should consider adopting. there are too many kids already in the world that need homes

;)b YES!!!!!!!! 

Hey, mdvegan, I think I might have seen a quotation by you in this month's VegNews about this very topic, no?

C'est moi!

Very cool!  That was an interesting article.  I bought the issue for the pet food section, but was slightly disappointed--I thought it was going to give a veg*n vs. non-veg*n pet food debate sort of thing, but it was about the recall (which I already had read a lot about).  Oh well--I got to read your published work, md!

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Did anyone see the movie Idiocracyhttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/  In it all the educated "smart" people don't have children because it's never the right time, money, career or relationship-wise and the poor uneducated "dumb" people have many.  So 500 years in the future, the whole population is stupid (stupider than now), e.g. they are starving because they use coca-cola to water the fields because if it tastes better than water, it is better.  This discussion of affluent people have kids as status symbols reminds me of that.  At least, hopefully, these folks can afford to educate their kids and maybe with stay-at-home moms they get the attention they need.  I see so many kids that don't get the attention they need at home and act out in outrageous ways to get any attention at all.  I'm not saying that all mothers should stay home wtih their kids but it's obvious to anyone who grew up before working moms were the norm that our generation was (and is) much better behaved and much more responsible than the kids in juinior high now are.  They are second and maybe even third generation "latch-key" kids. 

I never could have kids and it's too late now so my observations aren't tainted with what my own little darlings are like.  For what that's worth, my opinion and $4.50 will get you a coffee at Starbucks.  :D

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Did anyone see the movie Idiocracyhttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ 

I love that movie.  Unfortunately, I am reminded of it all too much in my classroom.

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Did anyone see the movie Idiocracyhttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ 

I love that movie.  Unfortunately, I am reminded of it all too much in my classroom.

why do all of the trouble makers have 3 or 4 more siblings on the way and a pregnant mom.  AH!

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At least, hopefully, these folks can afford to educate their kids and maybe with stay-at-home moms they get the attention they need.  I see so many kids that don't get the attention they need at home and act out in outrageous ways to get any attention at all.  I'm not saying that all mothers should stay home wtih their kids but it's obvious to anyone who grew up before working moms were the norm that our generation was (and is) much better behaved and much more responsible than the kids in juinior high now are.  They are second and maybe even third generation "latch-key" kids.

The nastiest and worst behaved children I know have stay at home moms.

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At least, hopefully, these folks can afford to educate their kids and maybe with stay-at-home moms they get the attention they need.  I see so many kids that don't get the attention they need at home and act out in outrageous ways to get any attention at all.  I'm not saying that all mothers should stay home wtih their kids but it's obvious to anyone who grew up before working moms were the norm that our generation was (and is) much better behaved and much more responsible than the kids in juinior high now are.  They are second and maybe even third generation "latch-key" kids.

The nastiest and worst behaved children I know have stay at home moms.

What do you think causes them to be that way? 

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The nastiest and worst behaved children I know have stay at home moms.

What do you think causes them to be that way? 

As I working mom (well, until last week I was able to say that), I was really just responding to the idea that it is the working mother phenomena that has led to this.

I think it is true there has been a general demise in standards for acceptable social behavior.  But I also think it is easy to call out kids in classrooms because they're in an isolated setting and it is easy to observe.  My opinion is that the entire society has gone to hell in handbasket.  Something has happened over these past ten years where narcissism and complete lack of consideration have become acceptable.  And it's not just the young twenty-somethings on their cell phones who fail to say please or thank you to their servers at Starbucks.  Self-entitled oldsters are among the worst offenders I encounter on any random trip to the grocery store.

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I know the wealthy have had nannies and childminders/housekeepers time out of mind, but with today's trend toward homeschooling I wouldn't be surprised to see the return of the professional governess--a live-in teacher. Someone has got to end up thinking that it's the ultimate status symbol... ::)

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ok, though i really think that the issue vhz brought up is pertinent and really ridiculous (that people would be like that), i really see a lot of stereotyping that is unsettling going on in this thread.

as one of 6, home schooled until high school, and daughter to a stay-at home mom (now my family is stay-at-home dad... but when i was younger it was mom)... i think that it's kind of outlandish to make generalizations about how kids are going to turn out (especially solely based on parenting style).
me and every single one of my brothers are completely different, i have one brother in particular that is absolutely wild (well, he is sort of calming down a it now that he is 13)... never does anything anyone tells him to and is probably what all of you think of when you think of a problem child. i have other brothers who are failing out of school, one got his GED, anther is in the marines..'

you really can't generalize based on parents.

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ok, though i really think that the issue vhz brought up is pertinent and really ridiculous (that people would be like that), i really see a lot of stereotyping that is unsettling going on in this thread.

as one of 6, home schooled until high school, and daughter to a stay-at home mom (now my family is stay-at-home dad... but when i was younger it was mom)... i think that it's kind of outlandish to make generalizations about how kids are going to turn out (especially solely based on parenting style).
me and every single one of my brothers are completely different, i have one brother in particular that is absolutely wild (well, he is sort of calming down a it now that he is 13)... never does anything anyone tells him to and is probably what all of you think of when you think of a problem child. i have other brothers who are failing out of school, one got his GED, anther is in the marines..'

you really can't generalize based on parents.

I totally agree with you.  Yes the parent's have a lot do with how a child acts, but children are individuals themselves.  A lot more than your parents action contribute to who you are. That is my opinion. 

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I am glad to see arguements here.  I was starting to get defensive.  Personally I have no choice, I am going to be a single mother, and my child has to go to daycare.  I have to work.  I have no husband, or even a boyfriend to help out with the bills, and I still have to pay rent, pay student loans, and buy groceries.  But my mom worked, so I grew up with working parents and I think I turned out okay.

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Personally I have no choice, I am going to be a single mother, and my child has to go to daycare.  I have to work.  I have no husband, or even a boyfriend to help out with the bills, and I still have to pay rent, pay student loans, and buy groceries. 

Wow - I really admire that!

My mom was a single mom of 4 (in her case she was widowed), and I have some idea what a task single-parenting is.

But as my mom would tell you, the best thing in her life was her kids, so there are some great blessings in the job, too.

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