Natural Herbivores
Posted by Skywalker7 on Oct 20, 2010 · Member since Jun 2010 · 89 posts
I have a link to some information that highlights reasons why humans are herbivores. There is tons of resources on this from various sources but I thought this particular articulation was interesting. I was interested in how people felt about the topic.
The site really only presents half the picture and its steadfast refusal to cite sources makes me doubtful. I shy away from any source that unequivocally states that we are herbivores because as a species we do just fine as omnivores and to suggest all meat-eaters are seconds away from dying a meaty, disgusting death is misinformation, pure and simple.
Giles Bowkett has released a very good video about this, arguing that while we are not obligate herbivores the development of cooking has led to evolutionary changes which facilitate a vegetarian way of life.
http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2010/09/eating-intelligently-evolution.html
That video is awesome.
And, IMO, whether or not we're 'naturally' herbivores or omnivores doesn't really matter; as long as I can survive, and do it healthily, on a vegan diet, that's all that matters. Humans naturally kill each other but I wouldn't want to do that just because my ancestors did.
very informative, can't quite agree with the man because i don't believe in evolution, but very informative nonetheless. I do believe that we as a species are natural herbivores however.
I agree that the face value credibility of that particular link isn't established, this is why in the first post I mentioned, how most of this information is also available from other sources, less biased and verifiable sources. Once again I thought this link had a way with words. Ultimately, I also think that we are herbivores but I do not agree with every little detail mentioned in the article. And rather poison kills you instantly or if it takes decades, it's still doing its job. The majority of cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure and cholesterol, arthritis, and countless other medical conditions are a direct result of an omnivore diet.
I think humans-- like other great apes-- are designed physiologically to be *primarily* herbivores... going 'all the way' is a choice, like nonviolence is a choice. But it's a result of the best of 'natural' human characteristics: reason, abstract thought, the ability to make moral decisions based on intrinsically motivated convictions about right & wrong... Unlike shoes, computers, zippers, & plastic-- all faves w/ omnis making the argument that we should eat meat because it's 'natural' for humans to do so! :P
There are so many arguments in favor of a plant based diet; this is one of them, and the physiological data clearly supports it (tho not exclusively for all humans all the time in all circumstances: b12 needs/ varied food production abilities in extreme climates) as a healthy choice. But I think there are better ones... physiologically, the distinction between the effects of '100% planteater' & '85% planteater' is just not scientifically supportable, based on all data I've seen, if all other factors are equal (ie whole food/ varied/ unprocessed diet)... ethically & environmentally, 100% planteater is a very much stronger case! So I try not to get drawn into the 'what's natural' argument (except re: things that clearly aren't, like MSG & red dye #3! blech!), 'cause I think there are stronger arguments for eating only plant foods than the one about physiology: there's too much room for 'mostly' vs 'all' planteating, w/in human A&P.
Hotcooknmama, you make very interesting points. The sad thing is that most omnivores not only center meals around meat, eggs, and dairy but it is the bulk of what they eat. I can not think of one omnivore I know that has a 85% plant food ratio to 15% animal derived. At best some may be 50/50 but the majority that I know actually eat closer to 85% animal products and less than 15% from plants. This extreme ratio is what overloads our bodies and creates much of the medical environment that exists today. When one makes exceptions for crossing a line, many times it is crossed more and more often and a greater habit than preferred develops.
I realize that unlike most vegans, my primary motivator to be one is related to physiology and keeping a pure mind, spirit, and body to be in tune with my higher self outside this physical world, not exactly animal rights and environmentalist reasons. For example, I know dietary vegans that would still hunt simply for sport, I understand their logic but that still strikes me as a little odd ???.
The sad thing is that most omnivores not only center meals around meat, eggs, and dairy but it is the bulk of what they eat.
... in your experience/limited circle of acquaintances. I know plenty of omnivores who enjoy a well-balanced diet and some veg*ns who eat total trash. The giant, sweeping generalisations really don't help anyone.
The sad thing is that most omnivores not only center meals around meat, eggs, and dairy but it is the bulk of what they eat.
... in your experience/limited circle of acquaintances. I know plenty of omnivores who enjoy a well-balanced diet and some veg*ns who eat total trash. The giant, sweeping generalisations really don't help anyone.
LOL, Catski, you really need to learn how to play nice. The majority of your posts toward me and and others you disagree with are offensive and attack the individual and not the issue at hand. What makes it more pathetic is that you speak on things you know nothing about. My limited circle of acquaintances? LMAO. I've dealt with more types of people in my twenties than many do in a lifetime. I actually defended you when Cubist Olympian accused you of insulting posters and being off topic in the "practical vegetarian" thread but now I see that it truly is in your nature. There can be a national poll of ominovores (ones that I'm not even acquainted with) and I'm certain than the majority eat closer to 85% animal products than 85% plant products. How can anything be well balanced that includes poison? Your inability to stay on topic and discuss issues at hand and your infatuation to insult me at your every opportunity tells me more about you than any bio could. Anything you post in reference to me from now on isn't even worthy of my acknowledgment, far as I'm concerned you don't even exist and you can give me the same courtesy.
I'm aware that you may have interacted with a broad range of people but statistically it's just not possible to generalise to all omnivores from what is, factually speaking, a limited sample size. There's certainly a trend towards meat-heavy meals in the US and I know that many Americans eat far too much protein, but definitely the attitude in other parts of the world (I'm thinking specifically Europe and the UK) is to adopt a rather more balanced diet.
That's all I mentioned in my post above, and if I come across as terse in text it shouldn't be misinterpreted as a personal attack.
Hotcooknmama, you make very interesting points. The sad thing is that most omnivores not only center meals around meat, eggs, and dairy but it is the bulk of what they eat. I can not think of one omnivore I know that has a 85% plant food ratio to 15% animal derived. At best some may be 50/50 but the majority that I know actually eat closer to 85% animal products and less than 15% from plants. This extreme ratio is what overloads our bodies and creates much of the medical environment that exists today.
Right on-- you're describing the standard american diet in all its glory (<--sarcasm!!), and there is nothing natural about it! absolutely agreed! But there *are* many Pollanesque flexitarian 'whole-food/ real-food/ slow-food' types, in western industrialized countries, or folks eating a more traditional diet in Costa Rica or India or whatnot who DON'T eat a SAD (where plants naturally predominate/ make up the larger portion of the diet, due to relative expensiveness of animal food production), and who can support claims through existing research that 'whole foods/ mostly plants' is good, with occasional meat/dairy/eggs ok & nondetrimental (even beneficial sometimes, in places w/o reliable access to B12 supplementation). The ethics & environmental reasons to go all-plant are, imo, just less subject to exception clauses.
We're on the same team, & I do like the article... just don't see it as a primary convincer of would-be planteaters. I do, though, TOTALLY roll my eyes when SAD eaters try to tell me that *my* diet isn't natural! Egads... the irony's almost enough to knock you down, if you aren't braced for it! :o
i think that 85% animal products is quite an exaggeration. So if a given person eats 4 cups of food a day, more than 3 cups are meat/milk/eggs and less than 1 is bread/pasta/rice/vegetable/fruit/beans? Those people must be seriously constipated. Even fast food isn't 85% animal, except for that Double Down thing.
Hotcooknmama, I agree. People who are more health conscience and adopt a more flexitarian diet do have less exposure to health ailments from what they eat compared to the average omnivore. India is very interesting and many vegetarians are also there and its some of my favorite ethnic styled food. I think that the majority of omnivores do not fall into that health conscience category. I said most and it seems that some others mistook me as generalizing every single omnivore to eat predominately animal products and that wasn't the case. There are always exceptions to the rule and that's the distinctions between using "most" and "all". The more health conscience people in Costa Rica, Europe, and other places most definitely probably consume less animal products than Americans but I doubt if even they consume 15% or less animal products unless some are extremely flexitarian and even then that still isn't the majority.
Faunablues, many of them are constipated, lol. I'll give examples of typical daily food intake for many omnivores. Pick and choose whatever to make a meal.
Breakfast = Bacon, sausage, scrambled eggs, milk, toast (with butter), cheese omelets, biscuit with gravy, pancakes (with egg and milkl), cereal (hot or cold and both with milk) coffee (with milk)
Lunch = bacon cheese burgers with chilli cheese fries, or deli sandwiches with only meat and cheese ( I see them ordered at subway and quiznos all the time), cheese sticks, hotdogs (with dairy buns), grilled cheese sandwiches, meat lovers pizza (glazed with butter and dairy in the dough also),
Dinner = a bucket of fried chicken with mashed potatoes and macaroni and cheese, steak and salad (drenched in cheese, ranch dressing, eggs, and ham), pork chops with chicken flavored rice and green vegetables that have been polluted in a pot full of ham hocks or fat back, lobster tails dipped in butter with caviar and cheese biscuits.
I can go on and on and on. All of the above eating itinerary is typical for many omnivores (especially Americans) and it all consists of 85% or more animal products. As I stated earlier 85% doesn't represent all of them, some are closer to 50/50. And again I'm not generalizing them all I know there are some more health conscience omnivores and flexitarians that eat even less, even closer to 15% animal products but they do not make up the majority. And most fast food places I've been too want to give me a milk shake, bacon double cheese burger, and onion rings (with dairy batter and dairy dipping sauce) for a meal.
very informative, can't quite agree with the man because i don't believe in evolution, but very informative nonetheless. I do believe that we as a species are natural herbivores however.
heh?
really?
Personally, i don't believe in gravity. Or inertia... they're just theories, you know. >:D
Personally, i don't believe in gravity. Or inertia... they're just theories, you know. >:D
LOL!!!!! like like like
"Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding"
We do actually have sharp front teeth, but flat rear teeth for grinding. Anybody ever see a horses teeth? They have flat grinding FRONT teeth as well as back teeth. Some people claim our front teeth are for tearing flesh, while our back teeth are for grinding plants, making us omnivors. But actually, our teeth are structured for eating FRUIT, where as a horse's teeth is structured for eating grass. We are fruit eaters, not meat or grass eaters.
I think it is interesting that they neglet to state how there are different types of herbavores, fruit eating herbavores will be different then grass eating herbavores. Gorillas are leaf eating herbavores, which is different then chimps and humans who are both fruit eating herbavores.
The article doesn't jive with some of what I learned. What isn't true is that humans only began eating meat 100 years ago or so. We HAVE been eating meat for thousands of years, but only a little bit here and there, certainly not what people consume today! People eat WAY too many animal products, and yes, we are herbavores, and do fine on an herbavore diet, but we can eat meat if we HAD to for survival, but meat is only that, survival food, NOT supposed to be a staple!
Here is a statement I don't agree with:
"most of mankind for most of human history has lived on a vegetarian or Lacto-ovo vegetarian diet".
Lacto? Honestly? Can you imagine someone 10,000 years ago eating cheese, or drinking milk? No way, eating meat? Yes, but definatley NOT dairy! Primal humans were vegan and ate meat once or twice a week if they were lucky! Now eggs they may have had pretty commonly though.
I like the article though. I like the arguements for a vege diet. Personally, I notice that my taste buds are more refined on a vegan diet, it seems that I can taste more, and food is just so much better because of it!
Human molars are unspecialized. They are they are not designed for grinding plant material (foliage), processing pulpy fruit, or shearing meat.