i've been feeding my dog 'evolution'.  it makes her fart SO MUCH!  i dont know if it's because its vegan, or because shes just a farty girl.  But the whole foods in austin sells pet promise and i think i might try that out. 

...nevermind.  pet promise has chicken in it.  does any one know of a good quality, vegan dog food that is sold at whole foods?  i'm going to the origional whole foods this afternoon, they have a HUGE selection.  I'm sure i'll find something there, but any suggestions before i go?

Hi Kelsi,
I'm here at LAX waiting for a flight back to NY and just read this thread. I know you have your reasons for wanting to feed your dog a "vegan" diet..... i just wanted to post something that I posted on an animal rights website last week while I was out of town in LA....a debate that was going on with one who was feeding her cat a vegan diet....

My own feeding of my dogs/cats is well documented here.... but I did want to share this...thing's I've stated here many times before...but this question of what to feed has come up many many times before here as well....

Here it is (my recent post on a vegan website):

"Hi.... Dave here. I'm a big time animal rescue person, fellow vegan, and dear friend of The Lone Reader whom she speaks of several times in this thread. She did ask me to come check out this site many times and I've read it a few times and was not sure when and where to jump in. I guess this is as good a place as any.

With regards to feeding a dog or cat a vegan diet I'd say it is equally as harmful as giving he/she a yearly vaccination (would you yourself vaccinate your own body yearly?), giving them frontiline or other harsh chemicals to eliminate or protect them from fleas/ticks, or monthly heart worm medication. I have 12 rescued dogs of my own and 2 cats. I've rescued hundreds and hundreds of dogs myself over the years personally... by pulling over in my car, finding them in the woods, whenever and where ever they may be. I don't drive by...I make it my own problem, I deal with it no matter the time, tears, pain, blood or money involved. How could I do anything less? I'm from NY, but had spent the past 5 or so years of my life living in the No. GA. mountains about an hour north of Atlanta near the trail head for the Appalachian Trial. I have never ever seen anything as bad as the stray dog problem there...anywhere. Being one who cares so deeply for animals....i too care what it is i feed them. I've spent years along with my ex wife (who BTW gave up her career as an attorney to open a natural petfood store) studying, reading, learning whatever we could to find out the best way possible to care for not only our own rescues, but the ones we kept finding, that needed lots of care. Emotional, physical, medical, whatever they needed to try to get them on a path to one day see that human hands are for petting and showing love...not for just hitting and throwing things at them. That words can be spoken softly with love...not loudly and with anger behind them. I tell you this to let you know that I would never harm an animal. But I do know and understand that in nature...animals do kill and eat one another. it's happening all around you..every single day. It's normal, it's natural, it's healthy. When we messed with things in the past we got problems like too many deer because the top predators have been taken out of the picture. So man creates a new "problem" called "hunting" to control populations of others further down on the food chain...but that's another post somewhere else on the board I'm sure.

I do think that feeding a dog or cat a meat based diet is "normal"...."natural"...and does not in any way take away more animals then if we (as man) never took them into our care in the first place. They are natural born hunters/killers. They can smell those that have been there before them or are off in the distance. Their limbs are made to run fast and jump long or high, their claws to grasp, hold, rip...and their teeth are designed to at first hold onto and then rip apart flesh. Their eyes are trained to see movement of the prey they seek. Look at their teeth and body build up compared to our own. Can you picture a human running and chasing down many other animals....sinking our teeth into them to stop them, rip them apart with nothing more then our hands and teeth? We all know the answer. Cats and dogs are "killing machines" designed by nature to do just that.... kill other animals so they can survive. Their existence until we men/women stepped in and messed with them was a 95% meat based diet. Sure their living arrangements have changed by us. But their own biological make up has not changed. They have much shorter digestive tracts then we do. They can tolerate raw bone and fur. It digests quickly in them and does not get blocked up. They gain their nutrition from the food they take in much quicker then we do. They do NOT digest grains and other plants quickly. Like meat does within a human...the same is true of plants and grasses in dogs and cats....it lingers in their system. It does cause blockages. They do not absorb all the nutrients from it they need. Regardless of the protein or fat content of the plants and grains they would eat...the body takes and processes those nutrients very differently and can tell the difference. Most of the plant matter that wild carnivores get are from their "kill"...by eating the remains of the stomach and intestines...plant matter that has already been partially broken down and digested already. It is not raw. Sure dogs and cats will eat grass. That is normal...but ever see a stray dog...or cat...skinny beyond belief? Surrounded by grass everywhere you look? Why do they themselves choose to not try and eat the grass to survive? It's a question that not one person has ever answered for me. I've seen too many skinny nearly dead dogs I've saved surrounded by plants of all kind....standing in a field of different grasses...yet they choose to not eat them. To die of starvation instead...Why?

I read a few pages back about cats seeming healthy after a number of years on a vegan diet. An analogy I often use is as follows. Before I became veggie...then vegan... I ate junk growing up...fast food...processed meats, lots of cheese. You know...many of us did. But see...whenever I went to the doctor...My exams always showed that I was healthy. No high blood pressure. No diabeties, no cholesterol problems, etc. I remember a doctor telling me during an exam when I was 25 that whatever it was I was doing...keep it up (yeah right...touring..drinking hard, barely sleeping, and eating crap)... i showed no signs of being ill. He himself told me I was fit and healthy. Yet...if I had kept that up...one day I'd pay a price. Sure there are those we hear of that eat bacon and eggs everyday, smoke, and eat fried dead chicken parts several times a week yet live to be nearly 100. Those people are few and far between. Most that eat a life long diet of "crap"...deal with "shit" somewhere down the road. One of my brothers is in his forties...also an attorney (so he is educated and should know better), but possibly eats one of the worst diets I've ever seen. He drinks coke by the gallon, eats hot dogs, pepperoni pizza, mac and cheese, fast food...all junk. Yet he works out, runs marathons and looks healthy. Somewhere down the line in his life it will catch up to him. The same thing will happen to most all cats and dogs forced to live on an unhealthy vegan diet when they in fact need fresh meat to be at their healthiest. Your own lifestyle thrust upon them is not doing them any favors. It in fact causes them harm over the long term.

With regards to my own animals eating other animals that have died for them to live..... if they were living in the wild...would they not kill the very same amount if not MORE animals to survive? I think they would kill more. My reason? They would need more energy as much of their time would be spent hunting for food as opposed to me providing it for them. They would also probably survive mostly off small rodents and birds as they are a prime food source and easy prey. So in the end....I do believe that more "lives" would end so that could live (due to them eating many many more small animals). Would I prefer to feed them vegan food? Absolutely. But when I saved them I promised them I would give them the best life possible. I have. They all live indoors in a beautiful house and when they go out they have acres and acres of woods fenced in for them to roam (I now live in the Catskills near Woodstock, NY). My cats do not go out. But I can watch them....on their perches...looking at birds...I see it in their eyes....if they had the chance they would try to capture and kill. It's their instinct and nature to do so. They (as well as my dogs) would never go out into my garden and forage for food. I know that for a fact because this past summer many of my dogs came into my garden with me. Not one tried to eat any of the veggies I was growing. Not once...ever. It is just not in their nature to do that either. They do not forage for their own roots and berries.

Try this: Set out a bowl of fresh meat or fish....set out another bowl of vegan dog/cat food or grains and leafy greens. See which they eat. 99 out of 100 would choose the meat/fish. Now do the same with a 3 year old child. I do not think there are many children who will naturally consume raw flesh.

I will end by saying that I would not adopt out a dog or a cat to someone who planned on feeding a vegan only diet. I have educated so many of the people that adopted pets from me over the years to a better diet, and a better way of healthy living for the pets they are about to care for. The ones I gave up much of my time, money, and mostly my heart to. I do not rescue dogs as part of a 501c. While I am on the board of directors of an Animal Sanctuary...I choose to never be a not-for-profit myself. I don't charge an adoption fee. I only ask that if I intrust you (in general) with one of their lives....one that I brought back from the brink...that you do everything possible to educate yourself to give them a great natural pain free and happy life. I do insist that they buy Dr. Goldstein's book (who btw has been vegan for nearly 30 years and feeds a mostly raw meat diet to his pets as I do). That they stay in touch and ask questions when they don't have an answer themselves. I have no children...but if I saved one's life...I'd not give it to someone who would harm it by feeding it nothing but fast food. I'd call it border line child abuse with my own sense of morals. I feel the same about the pets I not only care for as my own "herd" but the ones I intrust to others when they're ready.

Sorry for the long rant. No easy way to say what I felt I had to on this issue.... obviously it is something i care about with passion.

EDIT: not sure why spell check did not work...sorry...I'm sure there are many mistakes. Too long for me to proofread as I am LA it's 5am and I'm jet lagged. -d"

Kelsi...i do hope you'll reconsider feeding you dog a vegan diet... If you (or ANYONE here) can answer my question....as to why starving dogs/cats that are surrounded by vegetation will DIE before they eat that very vegetation...I'd love someone to please give me that answer...as I've seen too many in that situation...that die before they try to live on grass/veggies/grains on their own)...

-dave

i cant believe i read all that!! heh.  well, i remember having this conversation before with you prior to adopting polka, so i'll keep this short and let you know where i am at on this.  But taking all of the things that I read from you, articles and websites about dalmatians and their digestive system (or something having to do with their digestive system), recommendations from a veterinarian friend of mine in chicago and talking with my boyfriend (both of us take care of polka), i decided that a vegan diet, or at least vegetarian would be appropriate.  First, I read several different websites and articles about dalmatians not being able to digest many types meats properly and to feed them a mostly vegetarian diet, second, my vet friend said that he only recommends one vegan food, evolution, that it is really a complete diet for dogs and that he feeds it to his, then my boyfriend refuses to have non vegan food in the house.
I have had pets before with caretakers other than my boyfriend, and we fed those cats meat based food.  I'm not against buying meat for animals, but from everything that i read, heard and took into consideration points to having a vegan diet for polka.  Now, if i ever adopt a lab, or, you know, a different kind of dog, I would have to rethink things and talk about it with the boy.  I have a feeling that me saying all of this will let you down because I know how much love you give to animals.

The next time I take polka to the vet I will get another vets opinion about veggie dog food for dalmatians.  I certainly take your information seriously and will add it to my little box of doggie knowledge.