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[News] Rapists Admit Repeated Crimes - As Long As You Don't Call It "Rape"

Quote:
According to a new study of college students, men will admit to rape as long as you don't call it that — and the same few men are offending multiple times without getting caught.

According to Thomas MacAulay Millar of Yes Means Yes!, via the Washington City Paper's Sexist blog, researchers David Lesak and Paul M. Miller asked 1882 college students the following questions:

    1) Have you ever attempted unsuccessfully to have intercourse with an adult by force or threat of force?
    2) Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone who did not want you to because they were too intoxicated to resist?
    3) Have you ever had intercourse with someone by force or threat of force?
    4) Have you ever had oral intercourse with someone by force or threat of force?

As the Sexist's Amanda Hess points out, you'd think no guy would admit to any of these acts. But 120 respondents, or 6% of the sample (which, by the way, was ethnically diverse, and included older students, up to the age of 71), answered yes to at least one of the questions. 76 of those men had committed more than one rape or attempted rape — these recidivists averaged 5.8 offenses. That is, writes Millar, "just 4% of the men surveyed committed over 400 attempted or completed rapes."

The study had two important implications. One is that rapists aren't really all that secretive about their activities — as long as you don't come right out and call it "rape." The other is that one common assumption about date rape or "gray rape" — that it's usually the result of miscommunication and happens when good guys get the wrong idea — appears to be wrong. As Hess says, we hear a lot about "the acquaintance who 'misreads' the situation and 'goes too far'" and "the longtime friend who genuinely thought you had consented, and is shocked when you tell him that, no, it was rape." When we conceive of acquaintance-rapists this way, solutions tend to be woman-focused — women need to say 'no' louder, to avoid sending mixed signals, or, most upsettingly, to accept that the vagaries of sex are such that occasionally someone will just "accidentally" rape them. This thinking also trivializes date-rape and rape involving alcohol, leading to scenes like the one in Observe and Report (pictured above) in which sex with an unconscious woman is played for laughs. But Lisak and Miller's research shows that many acquaintance-rapists aren't just nice guys who screwed up once — they have a history of repeated assault. Rape isn't just an unfortunate feature of everyday male-female relations — it's a crime committed disproportionately by a few. And yet rather than being ostracized, these few are frequently protected by those who say, in Hess's words, "He's my friend, so he can't be a rapist." Hess continues, "We need to reverse that equation-'He's a rapist, so he can't be my friend.'"

Article @ Jezebel: http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape

I am in disbelief that 6% of the male population that answered yes to some of them. I would have guessed that the rates would be far lower, though I am not surprised that most of the ones that did were repeat offenders.

This reminds me of when I was in a psychology lecture class at a university. There were about 300 students in the lecture hall. It was a intro psychology class which could be used to satisfy a requirement for graduation, so it wasn't just psych students. So , early in the semester, the professor suddenly asked the males in the class if they would commit rape if it were legal, and they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they would not be punished for it. He asked them to raise their hands if they would, and almost all of the men in the class, most of whom were young (between 18 and 23) raised their hands. I looked around, I was amazed. Far more than half the men, 75 to 90%. The professor stood up there and smirked. The same professor offered me an A to have sex with him, and said that I wouldn't have to do the assignments or pass the tests. I said: no thanks, I intended to get an A legitimately, which I did , and then he gave me a B.

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:( I'd believe it. I've been raped by two different people, repeatedly by one, and molested by another, and stalked, but the stalker was arrested before it escalated. And I'm not even pretty or anything. However, it must be realized that women can rape too, even if it happens less.

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Rape isn't about prettiness/sexual attraction, but power.

I'd believe it too.

It's scary how many men would commit rape if there were no ramifications for them D:
That should be a screening question for first dates or something.

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Oh holy fuck.
As sad as it is, I'd believe it too. Attitudes to rape within relationships or "date rape/acquaintance rape" make me sick.
Sadface :(

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They make me sick too Theo. I have had several friends become the victims of rape over the years. Both of them would never admit to it being rape because it was "their fault for being too provocative and their boyfriends just couldn't help themselves".

There is no excuse for this... ever.

Rape isn't about prettiness/sexual attraction, but power.

I'd believe it too.

It's scary how many men would commit rape if there were no ramifications for them D:
That should be a screening question for first dates or something.

Ok, here's how we fix this, since there is so much sick creepiness out there:

All the women learn to give thorough personality tests. Before anyone goes out on dates, they give a psyc eval.

And bam! No social interaction for the ones who are evil, their genes don't get passed on, and society gets better.

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Quote:
According to a new study of college students, men will admit to rape as long as you don't call it that — and the same few men are offending multiple times without getting caught.

According to Thomas MacAulay Millar of Yes Means Yes!, via the Washington City Paper's Sexist blog, researchers David Lesak and Paul M. Miller asked 1882 college students the following questions:

    1) Have you ever attempted unsuccessfully to have intercourse with an adult by force or threat of force?
    2) Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone who did not want you to because they were too intoxicated to resist?
    3) Have you ever had intercourse with someone by force or threat of force?
    4) Have you ever had oral intercourse with someone by force or threat of force?

As the Sexist's Amanda Hess points out, you'd think no guy would admit to any of these acts. But 120 respondents, or 6% of the sample (which, by the way, was ethnically diverse, and included older students, up to the age of 71), answered yes to at least one of the questions. 76 of those men had committed more than one rape or attempted rape — these recidivists averaged 5.8 offenses. That is, writes Millar, "just 4% of the men surveyed committed over 400 attempted or completed rapes."

The study had two important implications. One is that rapists aren't really all that secretive about their activities — as long as you don't come right out and call it "rape." The other is that one common assumption about date rape or "gray rape" — that it's usually the result of miscommunication and happens when good guys get the wrong idea — appears to be wrong. As Hess says, we hear a lot about "the acquaintance who 'misreads' the situation and 'goes too far'" and "the longtime friend who genuinely thought you had consented, and is shocked when you tell him that, no, it was rape." When we conceive of acquaintance-rapists this way, solutions tend to be woman-focused — women need to say 'no' louder, to avoid sending mixed signals, or, most upsettingly, to accept that the vagaries of sex are such that occasionally someone will just "accidentally" rape them. This thinking also trivializes date-rape and rape involving alcohol, leading to scenes like the one in Observe and Report (pictured above) in which sex with an unconscious woman is played for laughs. But Lisak and Miller's research shows that many acquaintance-rapists aren't just nice guys who screwed up once — they have a history of repeated assault. Rape isn't just an unfortunate feature of everyday male-female relations — it's a crime committed disproportionately by a few. And yet rather than being ostracized, these few are frequently protected by those who say, in Hess's words, "He's my friend, so he can't be a rapist." Hess continues, "We need to reverse that equation-'He's a rapist, so he can't be my friend.'"

Article @ Jezebel: http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape

I am in disbelief that 6% of the male population that answered yes to some of them. I would have guessed that the rates would be far lower, though I am not surprised that most of the ones that did were repeat offenders.

You make it sound like that means 6% of the entire worlds population of men. I hope (and doubt) that's what you mean.

I suppose theoretically I may have sexually assaulted my ex thinking about it.
She enjoyed (and usually insisted upon) being tied up, she also used to fight back (we didn't have sex but did other things). Not knowing what I was doing I put her in a bad sort of pain once.
Interestingly they kept it limited to intercourse and oral intercourse, but had they not I could be adding to that %.
I should probably also make it clear once I found out I had put her in pain I felt like shit, it was unintentional. we were both completely sober.

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They make me sick too Theo. I have had several friends become the victims of rape over the years. Both of them would never admit to it being rape because it was "their fault for being too provocative and their boyfriends just couldn't help themselves".

There is no excuse for this... ever.

Rape isn't about prettiness/sexual attraction, but power.

I'd believe it too.

It's scary how many men would commit rape if there were no ramifications for them D:
That should be a screening question for first dates or something.

Ok, here's how we fix this, since there is so much sick creepiness out there:

All the women learn to give thorough personality tests. Before anyone goes out on dates, they give a psyc eval.

And bam! No social interaction for the ones who are evil, their genes don't get passed on, and society gets better.

you're kidding me, right?

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Half of halfway.

You know what? No I am not. Seriously, we need to weed out the crap in the gene pool.

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Half of halfway.

You know what? No I am not. Seriously, we need to weed out the crap in the gene pool.

Firstly there wouldn't be a viable way to implement this.
Secondly where will it end?
What about one to see how likely people are to cheat?
If they will be good parents?
Thirdly what about those who are wrongly assessed?
Fourthly where will the line be drawn?
Fifthly do you think this is genetic? Under what basis do you assert that?
And lastly if it isn't genetic then you will be getting rid of the symptom of the problem instead of the problem which is causing the symptom.

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Firstly there wouldn't be a viable way to implement this.
Secondly where will it end?
What about one to see how likely people are to cheat?
If they will be good parents?
Thirdly what about those who are wrongly assessed?
Fourthly where will the line be drawn?
Fifthly do you think this is genetic? Under what basis do you assert that?
And lastly if it isn't genetic then you will be getting rid of the symptom of the problem instead of the problem which is causing the symptom.

Firstly no, there would be no way to implement this. I wish there was some way to eliminate the awful things in our species though education, but that is not possible. I think we can avoid many things that do go wrong in relationships though education though, and teaching people the warning signs to look for in relationships would help. Granted that would not help the 27% of rape victims that do not know their attackers, but that would definitely help the 73% that do know the person that rapes them. The highest risk years are the 12 - 34 group. I think that relationship education paired with sex education starting toward the end of elementary school would bring these numbers down.

Second, there would be no end in sight. You would end up with genetic screening and anything that looked even remotely hokey would be avoided with laws to take out. It would be a dystopian horror.

Thirdly, people are more likely to cheat, we have long since established that though science. Personally I think rape is far far worse than cheating - and really cannot be compared to rape for that matter -  but that may just be me.

Fourth , I don't care if they would be good parents. Committing atrocities against other people is inexcusable. The effects of rape last a lifetime. Nobody has the right to affect someone else like that. And for that matter, would you want someone who was capable of so much evil raising your kid?

Fifth, those who were wrongly assessed would get the very short end of the socialization stick. Obviously this is not the best answer, but if it reduced the number of people being raped, I am willing to put up with some people being a little lonely.

Sixth, learn to count.

Seventh, the line would be drawn where society would decide to draw it, just like everything else.

Eighth, I do not think it is genetic. I think there is an evolutionary component of rape in passing on genes to that end.

And lastly it would be getting rid of the symptom of rape at large, not addressing narcissistic tenancies in individuals.

Essentially what I said as sarcastic wit would, in fact, make things worse as you would have a sector of the population angry at being shunned in society which would make them even more likely to rape. When I said I was serious, I meant that there needs to be more education and there needs to be more help available to people who have these tenancies. Hopefully the new and supposedly improved healthcare system will have decent mental health services included along with society progressing onward and people understanding that as all are equal, all have the right to be respected - physically and mentally.

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Hmm... I was always under the impression that people do that on an individual basis through dating (assessing whether the candidate is creepy/a rapist/not a good person/whether they're likely to cheat/if they'd be a good parents/if you get along).

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I agree with the dating assessment thing on the whole, but if they are likely to be a rapist is one that I don't think you could spot in the majority of cases. Because in marital or "relationship" rapes usually the situation is so convoluted with power plays and manipulation and coercion that you might not even realise what was going on could be classified as rape until long after the relationship ends. And you still might never admit it.

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I agree with the dating assessment thing on the whole, but if they are likely to be a rapist is one that I don't think you could spot in the majority of cases. Because in marital or "relationship" rapes usually the situation is so convoluted with power plays and manipulation and coercion that you might not even realise what was going on could be classified as rape until long after the relationship ends. And you still might never admit it.

As a regular male member of Vegweb for some time,  I tend to usually avoid topics like this, but I feel compelled to answer you on this. Obviously, I am not going to put myself out there under my user name.

I do not know if someone could spot the majority of the cases, but I am sure that you would at least catch some if not most of the cases that exist under the relationship guise.

Case in point:
Starting when I was about 9 in 5'th grade a neighbor girl who was 13 started telling me that she would be a "better friend" to me if I would let her "touch me". Touch started out as sticking her hands under my shirt, which made me feel... gross. I was 9... I wasn't interested in anything like that. But I was so godforsakenly lonely, I didn't have any friends, and the promise of a "friend" - even if it made me feel upset with myself - was too needed to pass up. Over the course of a year, hands under the shirt became no shirt. No shirt became no pants. No pants led to no underwear. Eventually it became full nudity with her on top of me. Many days I would leave the house when I knew she was coming home knowing that I could not feel upset with myself that day, by climbing over the back fence, running through the yard of the house behind us, and running down the next street down so that she could not find me. I couldn't just pretend not to be home. If I was home and she knocked on the door my mother would answer and of course my mother thought she was a nice girl, and she would come get me and tell me that I should be ashamed to be hiding in my bedroom closet from her. Or even better tell me to get out of the shower when I would be in there trying to scrub the self loathing off my skin and go play with her. I couldn't tell my parents about this - what would they think of me getting naked with the neighbor girl? My god, they would probably drown me in a vat of bleach while wearing biosuits so they wouldn't get any of the ick factor on them. How could they live with such a gross kid for a son?

When I was 13, after 4 years of this multiple times a week, she moved away to the other side of town and I never saw her again. On one hand I was depressed because now I had no close friends again and no affection from anyone (my parents were the cold distant types), I could see loneliness creeping in closer on the emotional horizon. On the other hand, knowing that I would hopefully never have to be made to feel disgusting just to have someone to talk to was a huge weight off my shoulders.

I am in my 20's now, and I have spent a large amount of the last decade dealing with a lot of guilt, feelings of being used, feelings of being gross, and not understanding how someone who was a friend could make me feel so disgusting. I spent years trying to figure out what was wrong with that relationship, and why exactly it affected me so badly. I can tell you for sure that if someone had taken the 5 solitary minutes to educate me what coercive relationships are, how they are wrong, along with what rape as a whole is - not just the stranger danger rape that kids are taught - I would never have made it past day one with her. Even being desperate for a friend, I would have never gone anywhere near that situation if I had understood how wrong and harmful it was. It wasn't until my 3'rd year of college when I had a feminism class that had a textbook with an in-depth chapter on rape were everything was laid out in very clear terms as to what rape was, that it finally dawned on me what had happened.

Presently I have a myriad of emotional crap to deal with, like having a hard time trusting women, and having to keep awful secrets from my intimate relationships. I have been with my girlfriend for several years now, and I have never told her any of this. I never told my previous girlfriend this either. For that matter, I have never said any of this before to anyone as it normally resides in a very dark corner of my mind. Frankly the thought of even mentioning anything in the least about to my girlfriend even though I trust her explicitly starts making me shake, much less trying not to go numb thinking about what she will think of me. I am not sure I will ever admit any of this to her, or at the most anything beyond a few hazy details someday.

From my standpoint, I firmly believe in more education for women AND men.

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That's an incredible story. Thank you for being willing to share that with us.

I'd really like to see more education about rape/sexual assault, going hand in hand with sex ed. There were some issues with how I was taught about it in school... it was usually a really brief topic, like we had a guest speaker for one day on it, and it was usually targeted at the girls, and it was less of a comprehensive topic, more like bullet-point "did you know?"s. On the one hand, I think both boys and girls should know about how to say no *and* to respect a partner's wishes (rather than the girls learning one and the boys the other), and I think there's sort of an equivocation about "date rape" as a whole. First we're told about rape that it's never the victim's fault, and then we're given a handy list of how we prevent ourselves from getting raped. The ideas that "it's not about attraction, it's about power" and "she wasn't asking for it by dressing slutty" doesn't really match with "don't dress too slutty" in a single talk on rape. And we learned about how we ought to make "no" *really* clear, when apparently the rape is all the rapist's fault.
I feel like in one way we're laying the burden of preventing rape on the victim, and if you don't follow those rules, you're asking for it. (of course, at the same time, of course people should know how to defend themselves, etc).
For the rape talks I've been to, it's like the myths about rape are mixed in with the reality. We learn all about not to walk down dark alleys, not to take the same route home everyday, to carry pepper spray, and then about how the huge majority of rapes aren't done by strangers anyway... :/

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Thanks for sharing that story regular, I'm so sorry to hear you went through that :( Correct me if I'm wrong, I can't assume to know what you experienced but to me it seems your story has a similar point to what I was trying to say about victims/survivors of coercive/manipulative rape masquerading as a relationship - that in many situations like that it can be near impossible to give the name "rape" to what is happening while it is going on. There's the knowledge that feels wrong, and that it makes you feel awful, but you don't know why and you aren't sure whose fault it is. So if you can't even say "this is rape" while it's happening, how could you meet someone on dates and be able to judge "this person could do things to me that I may not be  clear about at the time, they may make me feel sick and disgusting and uncomfortable and I won't be sure why until 5 years later when I realise it was rape but still somehow blame myself and feel guilty"? That could cover anyone you meet. The nature of relationship rape is so blurry and ill-defined by society that I really have doubts you could ever know.

There truly does need to be so much more education for everyone. It's too unclear, which makes the situation so much worse for everyone who has been through it because not only do they have to go through the trauma, they then have to either stay quiet about it forever or risk doubt, derision and personal criticism if they tell even close friends and family.

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Regular, your story is so sad.  What a terrible thing to happen to you.  I am always suspicious when an older child wants to hang out one on one with a much younger child.  When I was 13, the last thing on earth I would have wanted to do was hang out with a nine year old boy, and my friends were the same way.  That kind of relationship would have raised a red flag for me if I were your mother. I am so sorry no one ever noticed what was happening to you, or put a stop to it.  My friend's son recently went through something similar.  He is 5, and his male neighbor was 9.  They hung out every single day after school, alone in one or the others bedroom. One day my friend was passing by her sons room and saw that they were on the floor under a blanket.  She lifted it to say hi, thinking they had made a fort or something.  Instead the older boy had his pants off and was helping her 5 year old son perform oral sex on him.  This had been going on for a year.  In the end it turned out the nine year old's older brother was molesting him, and it is widely believed the father had been molesting the older boy.  Sadly, abuse is often passed from one person to another, like a disease.  As young as your tormentor was, I wouldn't be surprised if someone had done those things to her, but that is NO excuse.  Passing your own suffering on to someone else is just as sick and wrong as the first perpetrator.  I hope eventually you are able to tell your girlfriend what happened to you.  YOU have nothing to be ashamed of.  Good luck with everything!

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