Death by Veganism?
Posted by stillflat9 on Sep 23, 2007 · Member since Jul 2006 · 464 posts
So, I was just looking at that website that "lime green" posted on earlier. If you didn't look, it talks about the dangers of soy. Anyway, there was this article posted on the site and I wanted to know what everyone thought about it.
Have any of you raised vegan babies? Is it possible? Were these parents just not feeding their baby ever? I am an early childhood major and I have had professors tell me that it is impossible for a newborn to get all the nourishment he or she needs from a vegan diet alone. Is this true?
Ahh.... those lovely type stories/articles.
I am the lucky lucky lucky father of an amazing vegan almost 2 year old. We (well, not "we"... my wife did most of the work there...) breastfed until about 18-19 months. she has then moved onto a "big people" diet and is doing just fine.
Like the brilliant little2ant said, the key is supplementing responsibly. Every morning, she gets nutritional yeast in her OJ (and other places, when we can) and she drinks Silk enhanced with Omega 3's. We're going to talk about a kids multi with our doctor at her 2 year check up/oil change.
She's healthy, happy and brilliant. She's off the charts in height and head circumference. She's in the high 80th percentile in weight (she recently came onto the chart for the first time.) Her iron is better than her meat eating great grandmother and she's more verbal than the two 3 year olds my wife watches. At 22 months, that's saying something. She knows her colors, shapes, animals and noises, ABCs, can count to 14 and knows a lot of songs (Hearing her sing "Dashboard" by Modest Mouse is darn entertaining).
And today, she developed a crush on Johnny Cash.
I know I'm bragging, but I hope it proves a point... those kids didn't die because their parents were vegan. They died because their parents were ignorant. Like anything else in life, you have to research, and find out all you can before taking big steps like A) going vegan or B) having kids and especially C) all of the above.
If we cant get pregnant I want to adopt.
What a delightful way to build a family!!!! I'm so pro adoption! Don't get me wrong, I want o experience being pregnant so I plan to have one or two biologically (if I'm able) But there are so many kids who really need love and have so much love to give!
I plan to raise my children vegan. If I marry a vegan they will have to eat veg at home (I can't control what they eat at friends houses) If I marry and Omni they will be vegan until they are about 6 or 7 and then they can chose. This is a topic I have investigated extensively.
But, because I DO plan to adopt some additional things are thrown in. If I adopt a toddler or infant they will likely need formula and there is no vegan formula yet...I'd get some milk from the la leche league but then they'd have to have non-vegan formula to supplement. It is also possible to stimulate lactation in a woman and I'm hoping that I can try that too... ;)
Now, If I foster-adopt older children, I think it would be unkind to force them into a vegan diet immediately. So I will allow them to continue to eat meats for a time. Then get them into ovo-lacto and eventually they will probally want to eat the same way the rest of the family is eating. ;)
Oh my goodness I want kids so badly lately!
Stillflat9--
It surprises me that your early childhood instructors are not aware that the American Dietetic Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics both agree that milk is not a necessary component of a nutritious and appropriate diet for children. And Dr. Spock's books passionately promote the idea of a non-dairy diet for children.
I don't know all the details of that couple's situation, but there is no way any informed person would have considered that an adequate diet for a newborn. It is pretty clear to me they were incredibly ignorant. Of course, once you have children, you have a responsibility to them to make informed decisions, so in my opinion their ignorance is no excuse for what happened. It also seems too bad there weren't other adults around who might have intervened before it was too late. But it had nothing to do with the merits of the vegan diet.
Now, I have to throw this into the discussion . . . I know breastfeeding is the best thing for a child's development and it is the optimal choice. But the truth is, it frequently doesn't go great. And even after sticking with it, it doesn't go great and it is possible the child can fail to thrive (something that pro-breastfeeding groups refuse to acknowledge). I'm just mentioning this becasue there are two whole pages of commentary about breastfeeding, and I absolutely agree that it is the best thing, but I also know from my own personal experience that there can be gigantic obstacles and at times parents have to make the decision between breastfeeding and formula feeding and I think society needs to respect that is a personal choice.
jkl, That is completely understandable and noone here would criticize you for it. What irks me, and I'm sure other people, is when new moms decide to formula feed just out of laziness, or because they want to be able to go back to partying and drinking again...urrg!!! Parenthood is such a serious responsibility and I think it so wrong to risk the health of your child just so you can go out to the bars without worrying about pumping first....ok sorry for my rant!!!
Anyhow plenty of veggwebbers here have healthy vegan kids! Where's Lady Dragonfly?
My kid was born 8 pounds 3 ounces. Everybody says she looks big for her age. Your professor is wrong they can get all their nourishment from a vegan diet.
And that couple didn't know anything about a vegan diet. I think they were thinking it this way. Let's throw the baby some nuts (so to speak) it's healthy it's good enough. No you have to make it into meals.
I wasn't a vegan baby, but I did go vegetarian when I was 10 and vegan when I was 12.
I was kind of worried that I wouldn't accumulate a decent amount of bone mass as a vegan adolescent (since apparently, that's a huge factor in later development of osteoporosis, and my mom is having big issues with that now), but here I am, doin' fine, and I'm even on the sort of birth control that's supposed to reduce bone mass.
And... I've never been anemic, successfully donated blood since I first could, and got sick waaaaay less often since I went vegan. I never got the "stomach flu"(e.g. mild food poisoning) ever again. And, I'm a decent height for a gal (5'6") and I've never broken a bone.
All anecdotal, buy hey... it's what matters to me =)
jkl, What irks me, and I'm sure other people, is when new moms decide to formula feed just out of laziness, or because they want to be able to go back to partying and drinking again...urrg!!! Parenthood is such a serious responsibility and I think it so wrong to risk the health of your child just so you can go out to the bars without worrying about pumping first....ok sorry for my rant!!!
Anyhow plenty of veggwebbers here have healthy vegan kids! Where's Lady Dragonfly?
That is definitely annoying and I agree with you that women like that do exist. However, I think we also need to keep in mind the power of marketing. Women who choose formula might also do so because of how heavily it is marketed to them. Up until just recently, the new mommy gift bags that the hospitals hand out all included baby formula samples. I can see how uneducated moms might take this to mean that the hospital endorses this sort of thing. It is nice to see the change in the contents of those bags. Of course, many women need to use formulas, but I think it is a good idea to make more women aware of the benefits of breastfeeding first. Also, sort of a tangent I guess, but have you heard that baby formula is even marketed to women in third world countries?! Such a terrible idea!
Also, sort of a tangent I guess, but have you heard that baby formula is even marketed to women in third world countries?! Such a terrible idea!
I have to agree with your tangent. Nestle is very much guilty of this. The worst part is that, in a third world country, a woman might think "well, hey, this is what they feed in developed countries. It must be better for my baby." Unfortunately, I don't think companies realize the lack of sanitary water in developing countries. Formula, after all, is mixed with water! Either they don't realize or they don't care.
I think it's a good idea to have it available in cases where women can't breastfeed for medical reasons. So, they would go to a free clinic or wherever, and be able to get milk for their baby.
But, otherwise ... it's just not safe or responsible to promote breastfeeding in developing countries the way it's done here (with TINY lettering on the bottom of the commercial that states breastmilk is best).
Also, sort of a tangent I guess, but have you heard that baby formula is even marketed to women in third world countries?! Such a terrible idea!
I have to agree with your tangent. Nestle is very much guilty of this. The worst part is that, in a third world country, a woman might think "well, hey, this is what they feed in developed countries. It must be better for my baby." Unfortunately, I don't think companies realize the lack of sanitary water in developing countries. Formula, after all, is mixed with water! Either they don't realize or they don't care.
I think it's a good idea to have it available in cases where women can't breastfeed for medical reasons. So, they would go to a free clinic or wherever, and be able to get milk for their baby.
But, otherwise ... it's just not safe or responsible to promote breastfeeding in developing countries the way it's done here (with TINY lettering on the bottom of the commercial that states breastmilk is best).
We had an RD come and talk with our class about working in a WIC clinic in St. Croix (in the Virigin Islands). She said women there thought formula was superior, not only because women in more prosperous areas used it, but also because it contained added vitamins and minerals (they were unaware that breastmilk contains all necessary vitamins and minerals and more--breastmilk doesn't come with a label afterall). Unsanitary water is a problem in developing countries, but even if there is safe water, mixing breastmilk with the proper amount of water requires a literate mother. Oftentimes, formula was marketed to illiterate mothers in developing countries without proper instruction on how to properly mix it. Women would use too much water to save money and their babies would have nutritional deficiencies.
hahaha! Would love to see that, as they're my favorites! If you get a chance to video that, please send us the link!!!
I love that this question was asked, because I was wondering the very same thing, and wanted to hear personal experiences about it. I'm not intending to have children, but I wouldn't go so far as to rule it out yet either, and I would want to raise my child vegan. So its good to hear everyone's side of things.
On the adoption issue....isn't the adoption process pretty intense and thorough? Would an adoption agency have problems with a vegan family intending to adopt with eventual plans of having the child adopt a vegan lifestyle? I wonder has anyone tried. I'd think that they would want to find a pretty standard SAD-family so that the child could be raised "normally". I hope I'm wrong.
I remember this story when it broke, meat eaters ran with it saying "veganism kills!!!".
These parents were charged with cruelty and murder, which doesn't have anything to do with veganism. I separate the two. These were sick individuals who happened to be vegan. Veganism isn't the issue in this case in my opinion
On the adoption issue....isn't the adoption process pretty intense and thorough? Would an adoption agency have problems with a vegan family intending to adopt with eventual plans of having the child adopt a vegan lifestyle? I wonder has anyone tried. I'd think that they would want to find a pretty standard SAD-family so that the child could be raised "normally". I hope I'm wrong.
The process is very intense and thourough (as it should be!) I'm sure issues of veganism would come up and it would probally matter HOW the prospective family presented the topic of their lifestyle choice. If the seem radical/over the top/ and crazy...then it probally would not work out. If they seem like they have a good head on their shoulders and can talk about how they want the child to be healthy and how they plan to have a healthy child then I don't see why they WOULDNT be a good candidate....remember the "system" WANTS these children to be adopted! Particularly the older ones. I don't think they would deny a child a loving, healthy home on the basis of what the family does and does not eat.
jkl, What irks me, and I'm sure other people, is when new moms decide to formula feed just out of laziness, or because they want to be able to go back to partying and drinking again...urrg!!! Parenthood is such a serious responsibility and I think it so wrong to risk the health of your child just so you can go out to the bars without worrying about pumping first....ok sorry for my rant!!!
Anyhow plenty of veggwebbers here have healthy vegan kids! Where's Lady Dragonfly?
That is definitely annoying and I agree with you that women like that do exist. However, I think we also need to keep in mind the power of marketing. Women who choose formula might also do so because of how heavily it is marketed to them. Up until just recently, the new mommy gift bags that the hospitals hand out all included baby formula samples. I can see how uneducated moms might take this to mean that the hospital endorses this sort of thing. It is nice to see the change in the contents of those bags. Of course, many women need to use formulas, but I think it is a good idea to make more women aware of the benefits of breastfeeding first. Also, sort of a tangent I guess, but have you heard that baby formula is even marketed to women in third world countries?! Such a terrible idea!
It's true, though, that for some women, breastfeeding and pumping is incredibly painful. My aunt has always been a single mom to my cousin and she would cry every time she spilled even the littlest bit of breast milk because it was such an ordeal to generate more. My grandma finally pointed out that it might be more important for the baby to have a happy mom who enjoys spending time close and cuddling with him, instead of being in pain every time. So she reluctantly started feeding him formula.....then of course we come back to the DHA problem. Just an alternate p.o.v. about a woman who was very educated about the benefits of breastfeeding.
I have 2 gorgeous, healthy, smart and fun grandchildren who are vegan. They are healthy in every way. I too wonder why a vegan mother wouldn't breastfeed her baby. I think they were very confused about what vegan means.
I should add my grandkids are 10 and 7 and they've been vegan since the day they were born.
Check out the Sept/Octo 2007 Issue of VegNews...they actually have an awesome article entitled "Vegan For Life" by Marya Annette McQuirter!
:)
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