yeah. sure i'd reconsider everything. when i said I didnt want to that was just in response to all the angry "OMG what are you thinking!!!!
lol

I missed getting in on the last three pages.  Drat.

I thought when I read that comment that you, SQ, would have some choice comments.  Her lack of life experience is really not a good excuse for beinig such a, to use the only non-profane word I could think of, jerk.

http://bestsmileys.com/angry1/8.gif

I'm also really glad to hear your point of view as a single mother, SQ.  Just because not every woman deals with certain situations in particular doesn't mean that we all shouldn't be concerned with sexism.  It's foolish to say, "Well, the status quo suits me just fine, so I'll go with it."

Exactly. I personally do not feel sexism in my day-to-day life (meaning on a regular basis) at this point in time, but that doesn't mean I have never experienced it, or that I'm foolish enough to think that other women don't struggle with it every single day.

Also, not to keep picking at that one statement about single mothers, but I just have to quickly chime in... I cannot fathom how anyone would actually believe that it's the woman's "fault" to have ended up a single mother. Sure, there are promiscuous women out there who don't take precautions in preventing the pregnancy... But what about the responsibility for the men?? Or the woman who decides to have a baby with her husband when she thinks they're in a perfectly happy marriage--then he leaves without warning? (This happened to both of my grandmothers. :o) There are literally hundreds of ways a woman could end up a single mother without it being her "fault." :err: The fact that anyone would make a statement like this proves how unequal women still are in the minds of some... Including other women.

...There are larger issues involved relating to girls who are promiscuous and don't take proper precautions against pregnancy which I think are likely also related to sexism.  It has to do with education, how we empower (or fail to empower) women about their sexuality, and giving them the resources they need (like birth control).  There are much larger sex-related issues at work there than what's happening in the moment a woman becomes a single mother.

Absolutely!

so, I've been on vegweb for a couple of years and oddly, this is the first time I've looked at the debate board :p weird.

I find alot of what everyone's said on here to be really interesting. Many people I've met believe that feminism = hatred of men. I think that when it comes to issues like this one, there isn't really one definition. Feminism, to me, occurs when any "female" person lives (or tries to live) their life as they want to, and when any non-"female" person supports that. For me it also includes the belief that "male" people should be able to live the same way - without having to hide emotion to seem 'masculine', or doing things they might not be comfortable with in order to fit someone else's idea of masculinity. There's no sin like being a woman, right? Women now wear pants all the time, can dress up in suits and 'masculine' dress and people think they look fabulous. Men still can't wear dresses because people see it as weak to be 'feminine' unless you're female. It isn't just an issue for women, I think.

I guess it comes down to patriarchy, but I find it more systemized than anything else. Sure, there are men who take their power & privilege for granted - but there are others with power who may not realize it, either (my white skin for example). I don't think we can place the blame on every person in those positions of power when they got there due to ignorance in the first place. Sexism is systemized and we're born into it. Of course it's hard to get out of that mindset and take a close look at what's really going on. Same as so many of us were raised omni and had to examine that part of our lives closely, even if it resulted in an uncomfortable situation. But that's how things improve. When people realize & acknowledge that these issues exist, they can then do something about it. It's really hard to know about oppression and not have anyone to point fingers at (for me, anyway!) I guess it's just that those who propagate it often don't realize they do so.

Has anyone seen these posters? I have this one hanging in my bathroom. I feel like it applies to everything: myself and all the categories I might 'fit' into, but also the lives of others regardless of where they 'fit', including life that isn't human. If people thought in this way instead of trying to label everything and define each other and form roles based on appearance or identity, life would be alot simpler. I've also got this one in my bedroom.

I put "female" and "male" in quotations to try and acknowledge the diversity of genders...'female-bodied' and 'male-presenting' just weren't adequate.

We've got some smarties here on vegweb. Well said KMK and JC - kudos to you both!

Tino: Right on!! If I can be so very 70's as to say that! It's the old herd instinct...people don't like what they aren't used to, so if it's different it has to die!!

I wear loose clothing because it's what I feel comfortable in. I don't wear makeup because it doesn't show behind my glasses anyway, costs the earth and smells funny. I wear trainers (sneakers) because I walk a lot. And if my man were to suddenly go for kilts, or any other skirt, I could see his point. They certainly wear them in Fiji and Africa. And I have seen many a fine looking gentleman in a dashiki, and also in whatever that white tunic Arab men wear is called.

Tino: Right on!! If I can be so very 70's as to say that! It's the old herd instinct...people don't like what they aren't used to, so if it's different it has to die!!

I wear loose clothing because it's what I feel comfortable in. I don't wear makeup because it doesn't show behind my glasses anyway, costs the earth and smells funny. I wear trainers (sneakers) because I walk a lot. And if my man were to suddenly go for kilts, or any other skirt, I could see his point. They certainly wear them in Fiji and Africa. And I have seen many a fine looking gentleman in a dashiki, and also in whatever that white tunic Arab men wear is called.

DH bought a pair of wrap-around tie-dyed pants at the KFF and he won't wear them because they "expose" too much!  :-D

I know lots of men who wear kilts.  They are awesome and look handsome.  I am always trying to get LB to wear his to someplace other than the Renaissance Faire.  Though I have to admit, I got him to wear a kilt to the Masters in 2006 on the first day.  Aw yeah!