Posted by Anonymous on Oct 04, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
I believe poverty does exist in the world but do you think there is a cycle of poverty?
Posted by cutething on Oct 06, 2007 · Member since Sep 2007 · 139 posts
It's always so hard to pick up tone online. I have no idea if you're getting defensive, or if I've offended you, or if this is all civil statement-of-fact. In the event that I came off abrasive, I apologize. My intention in asking the question was just that; to understand the circumstances, not to suggest anything. I think it's awesome that you're able to do as much as you have done. It isn't easy to do. If it's been easy for you to do, bravo.
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Posted by tanevab on Oct 07, 2007 · Member since Jan 2007 · 942 posts
It's always so hard to pick up tone online. I have no idea if you're getting defensive, or if I've offended you, or if this is all civil statement-of-fact. In the event that I came off abrasive, I apologize. My intention in asking the question was just that; to understand the circumstances, not to suggest anything. I think it's awesome that you're able to do as much as you have done. It isn't easy to do. If it's been easy for you to do, bravo.
Sorry if I came of as snippy. I was quite tired last night and maybe a little defensive.
It has been anything but easy. The last year in particular has been overwhelmingly exhausting, mentally and physically. I have worked quite hard to get and stay where I am. I have sacrificed a lot of good times and posesions to have the security that I have now. But that is kinda my point. One of the big problems I see with my generation (gen x) and even more so with gen next, is the idea of entitlement. BTW I am not just talking about poverty here, I'm referring to our (US) culture as a whole. There is this idea that everything should be easy, people are looking for fast gratification and easy praise. This mentality is much of what is driving the outrageous debt that is destroying so many people. So many are only a paycheck away from poverty because they set themselves up for it.
Also I do still believe that the 'American dream' is still alive and possible. I have many friends and colleagues who are immigrants from other countries who have been able to do more than they ever dreamed imagineable in their home lands.
0 likes
Posted by cutething on Oct 07, 2007 · Member since Sep 2007 · 139 posts
But that is kinda my point. One of the big problems I see with my generation (gen x) and even more so with gen next, is the idea of entitlement. BTW I am not just talking about poverty here, I'm referring to our (US) culture as a whole. There is this idea that everything should be easy, people are looking for fast gratification and easy praise. This mentality is much of what is driving the outrageous debt that is destroying so many people. So many are only a paycheck away from poverty because they set themselves up for it.
Also I do still believe that the 'American dream' is still alive and possible. I have many friends and colleagues who are immigrants from other countries who have been able to do more than they ever dreamed imagineable in their home lands.
Oh my GOD, yes. I agree with this 100%. I'm at university now, and it's absolutely horrifying to see my peergroup behave like four year olds who need to be taught that life doesn't always work out their way. One girl wrote a professor an email saying she got "hyper and upset" when she didn't get an A. That professor was shocked and appalled that anyone would behave the way she had (completely unreasonable, self-centered, etc.) and then demand a perfect grade, despite doing far worse in the class than the people who were getting As, because, as she put it, she tried really hard.
The entitlement issue reeeeally pisses me off. Just so you can understand where I'm coming from a little bit, I'm in North Philadelphia, which is a very poor area. A fair amount of the students who attend university here are generally far from poor, some coming from quite affluent families. It infuriates me to see them walking by someone sleeping on the sidewalk as if no one is there, only to whine about how their dad isn't sending them enough money to buy a gucci handbag.
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Posted by tanevab on Oct 07, 2007 · Member since Jan 2007 · 942 posts
i am not saying it ISN'T impossible, but the way people are talking about it (i.e. if an American works hard enough, then they can have social mobility) isn't how it generally works.
I agree. It's not just about working hard. it's about working hard and taking the necessary steps to make change in their lives. Unfortunately many people are never shown what those choices and steps are so they can't take them. Some are fortunate enough to have someone show them the way while a very few have something inside of them that shows them the way out without being helped.
Like ecstatic has been saying I think one of the shortcomings with our 'system' is a lack of education in life. Not just academics but true life skills.
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Posted by cutething on Oct 07, 2007 · Member since Sep 2007 · 139 posts
I also agree with this. Wouldn't it be great if there was a life 101 course offered at most high schools and universities? Topics would include:
1. How to do laundry 2. Basic food preparation/safety 3. Home repair 4. Balancing your checkbook 5. What is credit, why do I need it? 6. Saving for the future 7. Leases, Landlords and Lucifer
More to come. Perhaps have the intro course and then subsequent advanced courses.
0 likes
Posted by tanevab on Oct 07, 2007 · Member since Jan 2007 · 942 posts
7. Leases, Landlords and Lucifer
;D ;D ;D
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Posted by tanevab on Oct 07, 2007 · Member since Jan 2007 · 942 posts
I also agree with this. Wouldn't it be great if there was a life 101 course offered at most high schools and universities? Topics would include:
1. How to do laundry 2. Basic food preparation/safety 3. Home repair
We used to have these it was called home economics and shop. But then people decided they were sexist and instead of just making boys and girls take both classes we just got rid of them.
In all seriousness though yes we need these desperately. Also should be true nutrition courses and how to do your taxes as well as etiquette and poise. I know the last two sound oldfashioned but people who have these skills feel better about themselves, more confident and are more employable.
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Posted by lotus42 on Oct 07, 2007 · Member since Mar 2007 · 3081 posts
It has been anything but easy. The last year in particular has been overwhelmingly exhausting, mentally and physically. I have worked quite hard to get and stay where I am. I have sacrificed a lot of good times and posesions to have the security that I have now. But that is kinda my point. One of the big problems I see with my generation (gen x) and even more so with gen next, is the idea of entitlement. BTW I am not just talking about poverty here, I'm referring to our (US) culture as a whole. There is this idea that everything should be easy, people are looking for fast gratification and easy praise. This mentality is much of what is driving the outrageous debt that is destroying so many people. So many are only a paycheck away from poverty because they set themselves up for it.
AMEN Taneva! I totally rant about this all the time. I was discussing the "entitlement" issue with my parents as I was talking about some problems I was having with kids/parents at the school where I teach. I came up with the following theory.
My grandparents grew up during the depression (my grandmother was actually born on the day the stock market crashed! :o), and they had HARD lives. They worked hard for every single thing they got and taught their children to work hard also. Then my parents' generation, went into the workforce with the aim of "having more than their parents." But, some people went on a very materialistic path of working hard, simply to get more "stuff"; then "loved" their kids by giving them everything in the world. Many of my friends growing up, got allowances for doing nothing. New clothes on frequent weekend shopping trips, extravagant Christmases and birthdays, etc... Anyway, those kids never learned where that "stuff" came from. They never had to work for anything. Therein lies the idea of entitlement. Now, these same kids are adults, and they are elbows deep in credit cards, refusing to work at a crap entry-level job or a job not in their preferred field to "pay their dues" right out of school because they are waiting for their "dream job." Essentially, they believe they should be able to maintain the lifestyle their parents gave them simply because "that's what they're used to."
OK. I know this was excessively long, but you struck a chord with me, Taneva.
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Posted by Duckalucky on Oct 07, 2007 · Member since Aug 2006 · 1127 posts
I also agree with this. Wouldn't it be great if there was a life 101 course offered at most high schools and universities? Topics would include:
1. How to do laundry 2. Basic food preparation/safety 3. Home repair 4. Balancing your checkbook 5. What is credit, why do I need it? 6. Saving for the future 7. Leases, Landlords and Lucifer
More to come. Perhaps have the intro course and then subsequent advanced courses.
Perfect. Classes on banking and credit would be amazing... I think it should be freshman or sophomore in high school material, not left til kids already had access to credit cards.
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Posted by yabbitgirl on Oct 07, 2007 · Member since Apr 2006 · 14266 posts
When I was in highschool there was a course called "Child Development and Human Growth." One semester on babies and children, and one on adult life--marriage, death, taxes, all the important stuff. Like WHAT to do when someone dies...contacting the authorities for the death certificate, the mortuary thing, wills and legacies, etc. And basic accounting and how to file taxes. That was 30 yrs ago, but it was a good course. I grew up in a small Midwestern rural town where it was quite common for young couples to marry right after graduation, and they recommended that they take the course as a couple.
More than one tough "jock" passed out during the childbirth film...and my best HS friend's BF left the class swearing "We're never having any kids, I'm not putting you through that!" ;D (They now have 3 adult kids....)
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Posted by mirrya1 on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since Jan 2006 · 2210 posts
We used to have these it was called home economics and shop.
The meat processing video in home economics is what made me turn to a vegetarian lifestyle 16 years ago. My mom was not happy. ;)
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Posted by cutething on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since Sep 2007 · 139 posts
Our home ec teacher preferred to tell us stories about her miniature poodle. We learned how to make english muffin pizzas. They kicked ass, but as far as useful skills? Not so much. In Shop, the girls had to make plastic picture frames that involved putting the plastic on heaters, waiting ten minutes, then watching the teacher bend them into shape. (It wasn't safe to let us use the equipment, according to him).
I think we did get to watch him use another machine that bend metal into a shape, and we also got to watch him drill holes in it to form a metal plant hanger you could put on your ceiling. Even the boys, who were allowed to do it themselves, weren't taught how to do particularly useful stuff.
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Posted by beccalynn77 on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since Mar 2007 · 238 posts
Quote:
BL, are you seriously equating the price of a boombox to the price of a house/apartment?
umm.. her ethey arent 30 dollars. there like... 3000 literally. But what im saying is.. their house is thrown together with a few boards on stolen land yet they have electronics.. no food fo rteh next day.. drugs.. no money for bills so its cut of.. etc etc etc
0 likes
Posted by Anonymous on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
I also agree with this. Wouldn't it be great if there was a life 101 course offered at most high schools and universities? Topics would include:
1. How to do laundry 2. Basic food preparation/safety 3. Home repair 4. Balancing your checkbook 5. What is credit, why do I need it? 6. Saving for the future 7. Leases, Landlords and Lucifer
More to come. Perhaps have the intro course and then subsequent advanced courses.
But that has to be a years worth of lessons and it's not that long of a thing to learn one of them.
Posted by cutething on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since Sep 2007 · 139 posts
Not quite understanding your objection.
0 likes
Posted by Tkitty96 on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since May 2006 · 1789 posts
No one ever does.
0 likes
Posted by hespedal on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since Mar 2006 · 5259 posts
No one ever does.
ha ha. you gotta love those that try, though
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Posted by Meggs on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since Jun 2007 · 3572 posts
Not quite understanding your objection.
No one ever does.
Why did these two sentences make me laugh harder than I have at all the rest of the hilarious things that have been said?
0 likes
Posted by Anonymous on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
No one ever does.
No like yours this is none of your concern. But I'm the other half of the subject what dumb ass people. Go get a life. Imagine talking to someone and they are not speaking to you.
Posted by mirrya1 on Oct 08, 2007 · Member since Jan 2006 · 2210 posts
Our home ec teacher preferred to tell us stories about her miniature poodle. We learned how to make english muffin pizzas. They kicked ass, but as far as useful skills? Not so much. In Shop, the girls had to make plastic picture frames that involved putting the plastic on heaters, waiting ten minutes, then watching the teacher bend them into shape. (It wasn't safe to let us use the equipment, according to him).
I think we did get to watch him use another machine that bend metal into a shape, and we also got to watch him drill holes in it to form a metal plant hanger you could put on your ceiling. Even the boys, who were allowed to do it themselves, weren't taught how to do particularly useful stuff.
Geez..we learned a whole lot more in our home ec class. How to use a sewing machine and how to sew lots of different hand sewing things. Plus how to plan a menu, cooking, etc. In shop we had to learn how to use hand tools and certain power tools. I have a reindeer from my 8th grade shop class that my mom still puts out at christmas (even though it's ridiculously amaturish (sp?) and freaky looking). They also forced us into art class but I won't get into a description of my failing grade due to bad stick people and fallen over pottery. :D
It's always so hard to pick up tone online. I have no idea if you're getting defensive, or if I've offended you, or if this is all civil statement-of-fact. In the event that I came off abrasive, I apologize. My intention in asking the question was just that; to understand the circumstances, not to suggest anything. I think it's awesome that you're able to do as much as you have done. It isn't easy to do. If it's been easy for you to do, bravo.
It's always so hard to pick up tone online. I have no idea if you're getting defensive, or if I've offended you, or if this is all civil statement-of-fact. In the event that I came off abrasive, I apologize. My intention in asking the question was just that; to understand the circumstances, not to suggest anything. I think it's awesome that you're able to do as much as you have done. It isn't easy to do. If it's been easy for you to do, bravo.
Sorry if I came of as snippy. I was quite tired last night and maybe a little defensive.
It has been anything but easy. The last year in particular has been overwhelmingly exhausting, mentally and physically. I have worked quite hard to get and stay where I am. I have sacrificed a lot of good times and posesions to have the security that I have now. But that is kinda my point. One of the big problems I see with my generation (gen x) and even more so with gen next, is the idea of entitlement. BTW I am not just talking about poverty here, I'm referring to our (US) culture as a whole. There is this idea that everything should be easy, people are looking for fast gratification and easy praise. This mentality is much of what is driving the outrageous debt that is destroying so many people. So many are only a paycheck away from poverty because they set themselves up for it.
Also I do still believe that the 'American dream' is still alive and possible. I have many friends and colleagues who are immigrants from other countries who have been able to do more than they ever dreamed imagineable in their home lands.
But that is kinda my point. One of the big problems I see with my generation (gen x) and even more so with gen next, is the idea of entitlement. BTW I am not just talking about poverty here, I'm referring to our (US) culture as a whole. There is this idea that everything should be easy, people are looking for fast gratification and easy praise. This mentality is much of what is driving the outrageous debt that is destroying so many people. So many are only a paycheck away from poverty because they set themselves up for it.
Also I do still believe that the 'American dream' is still alive and possible. I have many friends and colleagues who are immigrants from other countries who have been able to do more than they ever dreamed imagineable in their home lands.
Oh my GOD, yes. I agree with this 100%. I'm at university now, and it's absolutely horrifying to see my peergroup behave like four year olds who need to be taught that life doesn't always work out their way. One girl wrote a professor an email saying she got "hyper and upset" when she didn't get an A. That professor was shocked and appalled that anyone would behave the way she had (completely unreasonable, self-centered, etc.) and then demand a perfect grade, despite doing far worse in the class than the people who were getting As, because, as she put it, she tried really hard.
The entitlement issue reeeeally pisses me off. Just so you can understand where I'm coming from a little bit, I'm in North Philadelphia, which is a very poor area. A fair amount of the students who attend university here are generally far from poor, some coming from quite affluent families. It infuriates me to see them walking by someone sleeping on the sidewalk as if no one is there, only to whine about how their dad isn't sending them enough money to buy a gucci handbag.
i am not saying it ISN'T impossible, but the way people are talking about it (i.e. if an American works hard enough, then they can have social mobility) isn't how it generally works.
I agree. It's not just about working hard. it's about working hard and taking the necessary steps to make change in their lives. Unfortunately many people are never shown what those choices and steps are so they can't take them. Some are fortunate enough to have someone show them the way while a very few have something inside of them that shows them the way out without being helped.
Like ecstatic has been saying I think one of the shortcomings with our 'system' is a lack of education in life. Not just academics but true life skills.
I also agree with this. Wouldn't it be great if there was a life 101 course offered at most high schools and universities? Topics would include:
1. How to do laundry
2. Basic food preparation/safety
3. Home repair
4. Balancing your checkbook
5. What is credit, why do I need it?
6. Saving for the future
7. Leases, Landlords and Lucifer
More to come. Perhaps have the intro course and then subsequent advanced courses.
7. Leases, Landlords and Lucifer
;D ;D ;D
I also agree with this. Wouldn't it be great if there was a life 101 course offered at most high schools and universities? Topics would include:
1. How to do laundry
2. Basic food preparation/safety
3. Home repair
We used to have these it was called home economics and shop. But then people decided they were sexist and instead of just making boys and girls take both classes we just got rid of them.
In all seriousness though yes we need these desperately. Also should be true nutrition courses and how to do your taxes as well as etiquette and poise. I know the last two sound oldfashioned but people who have these skills feel better about themselves, more confident and are more employable.
It has been anything but easy. The last year in particular has been overwhelmingly exhausting, mentally and physically. I have worked quite hard to get and stay where I am. I have sacrificed a lot of good times and posesions to have the security that I have now. But that is kinda my point. One of the big problems I see with my generation (gen x) and even more so with gen next, is the idea of entitlement. BTW I am not just talking about poverty here, I'm referring to our (US) culture as a whole. There is this idea that everything should be easy, people are looking for fast gratification and easy praise. This mentality is much of what is driving the outrageous debt that is destroying so many people. So many are only a paycheck away from poverty because they set themselves up for it.
AMEN Taneva! I totally rant about this all the time. I was discussing the "entitlement" issue with my parents as I was talking about some problems I was having with kids/parents at the school where I teach. I came up with the following theory.
My grandparents grew up during the depression (my grandmother was actually born on the day the stock market crashed! :o), and they had HARD lives. They worked hard for every single thing they got and taught their children to work hard also. Then my parents' generation, went into the workforce with the aim of "having more than their parents." But, some people went on a very materialistic path of working hard, simply to get more "stuff"; then "loved" their kids by giving them everything in the world. Many of my friends growing up, got allowances for doing nothing. New clothes on frequent weekend shopping trips, extravagant Christmases and birthdays, etc... Anyway, those kids never learned where that "stuff" came from. They never had to work for anything. Therein lies the idea of entitlement. Now, these same kids are adults, and they are elbows deep in credit cards, refusing to work at a crap entry-level job or a job not in their preferred field to "pay their dues" right out of school because they are waiting for their "dream job." Essentially, they believe they should be able to maintain the lifestyle their parents gave them simply because "that's what they're used to."
OK. I know this was excessively long, but you struck a chord with me, Taneva.
I also agree with this. Wouldn't it be great if there was a life 101 course offered at most high schools and universities? Topics would include:
1. How to do laundry
2. Basic food preparation/safety
3. Home repair
4. Balancing your checkbook
5. What is credit, why do I need it?
6. Saving for the future
7. Leases, Landlords and Lucifer
More to come. Perhaps have the intro course and then subsequent advanced courses.
Perfect. Classes on banking and credit would be amazing... I think it should be freshman or sophomore in high school material, not left til kids already had access to credit cards.
When I was in highschool there was a course called "Child Development and Human Growth." One semester on babies and children, and one on adult life--marriage, death, taxes, all the important stuff. Like WHAT to do when someone dies...contacting the authorities for the death certificate, the mortuary thing, wills and legacies, etc. And basic accounting and how to file taxes. That was 30 yrs ago, but it was a good course. I grew up in a small Midwestern rural town where it was quite common for young couples to marry right after graduation, and they recommended that they take the course as a couple.
More than one tough "jock" passed out during the childbirth film...and my best HS friend's BF left the class swearing "We're never having any kids, I'm not putting you through that!" ;D (They now have 3 adult kids....)
We used to have these it was called home economics and shop.
The meat processing video in home economics is what made me turn to a vegetarian lifestyle 16 years ago. My mom was not happy. ;)
Our home ec teacher preferred to tell us stories about her miniature poodle. We learned how to make english muffin pizzas. They kicked ass, but as far as useful skills? Not so much. In Shop, the girls had to make plastic picture frames that involved putting the plastic on heaters, waiting ten minutes, then watching the teacher bend them into shape. (It wasn't safe to let us use the equipment, according to him).
I think we did get to watch him use another machine that bend metal into a shape, and we also got to watch him drill holes in it to form a metal plant hanger you could put on your ceiling. Even the boys, who were allowed to do it themselves, weren't taught how to do particularly useful stuff.
umm.. her ethey arent 30 dollars. there like... 3000 literally. But what im saying is.. their house is thrown together with a few boards on stolen land yet they have electronics.. no food fo rteh next day.. drugs.. no money for bills so its cut of.. etc etc etc
I also agree with this. Wouldn't it be great if there was a life 101 course offered at most high schools and universities? Topics would include:
1. How to do laundry
2. Basic food preparation/safety
3. Home repair
4. Balancing your checkbook
5. What is credit, why do I need it?
6. Saving for the future
7. Leases, Landlords and Lucifer
More to come. Perhaps have the intro course and then subsequent advanced courses.
But that has to be a years worth of lessons and it's not that long of a thing to learn one of them.
Not quite understanding your objection.
No one ever does.
No one ever does.
ha ha. you gotta love those that try, though
Not quite understanding your objection.
No one ever does.
Why did these two sentences make me laugh harder than I have at all the rest of the hilarious things that have been said?
No one ever does.
No like yours this is none of your concern. But I'm the other half of the subject what dumb ass people. Go get a life. Imagine talking to someone and they are not speaking to you.
What dumb ass people!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Our home ec teacher preferred to tell us stories about her miniature poodle. We learned how to make english muffin pizzas. They kicked ass, but as far as useful skills? Not so much. In Shop, the girls had to make plastic picture frames that involved putting the plastic on heaters, waiting ten minutes, then watching the teacher bend them into shape. (It wasn't safe to let us use the equipment, according to him).
I think we did get to watch him use another machine that bend metal into a shape, and we also got to watch him drill holes in it to form a metal plant hanger you could put on your ceiling. Even the boys, who were allowed to do it themselves, weren't taught how to do particularly useful stuff.
Geez..we learned a whole lot more in our home ec class. How to use a sewing machine and how to sew lots of different hand sewing things. Plus how to plan a menu, cooking, etc. In shop we had to learn how to use hand tools and certain power tools. I have a reindeer from my 8th grade shop class that my mom still puts out at christmas (even though it's ridiculously amaturish (sp?) and freaky looking). They also forced us into art class but I won't get into a description of my failing grade due to bad stick people and fallen over pottery. :D
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